Newbie In Need Of Guidance #2

[sandi2]

Are you giving off cold and mad vibes toward her? When we say don't try to nice her back, detach, etc...........we don't mean you are suppose to be cold and give off angry vibrations. As far as she knows, you know nothing about her having an A with OM.......so, if you are coming off as cold/mad at her, then you are just looking like a jerk. Detaching is not giving off these type of vibes.

A wayward wife is very much like a wayward child. If there are no enforced boundaries, no consequences, etc........then her actions can lead to a lifestyle of pain and destruction.
It is not easy for her H and family members. She is can be a manipulator by using only two cards. She will accuse the H of trying to control her or have his own way about everything........or she will lay a guilt trip on him. So, staying balanced while he attempts to lead in the family/home and steer his MR back to a healthy place......is no easy task.

I have seen a lot of newcomer H's who simply did not know how to show strength, detaching, standing up to his W, etc., without acting cold/mad/sullen. They did not know how to separate the picture of detaching from cold/angry. If this is the case with you, then she will not see your strength. All she will see is the cold/mad/sullen behavior. Make sense? Just as you cannot nice her back into being the old W you want, neither can you act punitive, mean, cold, sullen, etc., and expect her to fall into your arms.

After reading your recent post about the car conversation, and seeing some of your comments, I am seeing something surface that I either missed, or it has not previously come up in your posts.

Her vehicle was having issues and she was complaining about it. I had a place I was going to have it towed to that evening, but when she started complaining I told her she could drive it herself. I didn’t actually think she would, but she did and broke down when she was driving it there.

So, I'll start here with some questions. How long had she complained about her car before you tried to repair it? In all honesty, was not having it fixed sooner some attempt to keep her from meeting up with OM? Did you actually tell her your plans to have it towed that evening? I am not finding fault here, but trying to get clarification.

I started out strong, keeping her in “her place” not taking her cr@p, but then things started to go to the R. She said things like “I can’t do this anymore,” “You never hear what I am saying,” “I talk and you do whatever you want,” and “You’re in control of everything and I feel like I have no voice in anything important.” Typical things that a WW will say.
She went on to say that she was very hurt over the incident in the car, which I did not respond to and that “Sometimes I don’t even know who you are anymore.”

Okay, let's look at this and see if we can determine how much is true and what is b.s. guilt card playing tactics. First, she associated the situation of you not getting her car fixed (in whatever she felt was a reasonable frame of time) with past experiences with you. Now, being a man, you may only focus on the part of that sentence about not getting the car fixed. I am asking you to take your focus off the car for a moment and hear what I hear her saying. "You never hear what I am saying"......is your W emotionally relating to past incidents and connecting them to the current one. I guarantee every woman on this board will agree with me. She is very frustrated at a continual issue that has not ended. That being that you don't listen with your heart. You may vaguely hear her words......but, apparently, she feels you do not take them seriously. "I talk and you do whatever you want to do", is her saying that she feels her views are not considered, appreciated, or respected. By ""doing whatever you want", sounds as if you look like a jerk or bully in her eyes. "You're in control of everything and I feel like I have no voice in anything important", sounds as if she has not felt very valued when it came to important decisions. Bottom line is that only you know if you have given her cause to feel devalued. If you have been guilty of these accusations in the past, then I can see how it would breed a lot of resentment in her heart. I think you need to do some deep self-evaluation.

Frankly, I can't help but think what she said is true to some degree. I am saying this really had very little to do with the car. It goes deeper. I don't think this issue of you never listening to her would have risen to the surface, if it had not been brewing for a long time. IMHO, it's these type of incidents that cause men to shake their heads at women, b/c he sees her making a huge deal out of having a car fixed. (Remember me talking about unresolved issues causing resentment that is pushed down into her heart). The deal with the car not being fixed sooner, was the straw that broke the camel's back. Make sense?

Now, if I'm wrong and everything she said was nothing more than fabrication, then mark it off as her playing the guilt card on you. Maybe it's a little of both, you think? At any rate, do some soul searching, b/c too many H's see this type of "cr@p" from their W as nagging. Based on what they've heard passed down through other men......this is what W's do. They nag. So, the H shruggs if off, and it turns into resentment and is bedded in her heart. Whenever something else comes up to trigger these resentful feelings, she will react in the same manner. She doesn't see him changing, and he writes it down to being something much farther from the truth.

She then said that I went from not really paying attention to her to three weeks of being thoughtful and now just being mad at her all of the time (these three weeks she is referring to was before I found DB). She brought up that I said I wasn’t going to give up on her and was going to show her that I love her some way (again, before I got here).

Could you tell if she appeared let down when you stopped doing special things for her? Refresh my mind, how did she respond during that time you were showering her with attention? I'm not saying to start doing it again, at least not right now. I am looking at something I have not seen in your story, until now.

She went on to say that “I’m terribly hurt and don’t think we can fix this marriage anymore. Seems like you give up and so do I. I won’t leave because of the kids, but I cannot do this forever.”

How did you respond when she mentioned how you went from paying her attention to being mad at her all the time? To me, it sounds as the next quote was said b/c she wasn't getting much recognition from you......at least, verbally.

The recurring theme in her messages since this began is basically what I posted above, but she always seems to bring up me not hearing her, not doing things with her and the three weeks I gave her a ton of attention.

Then I tend to believe this is something she has needed for a long time. And I am not saying it is definitely the reason she is in an A, but can you understand how it could leave her vulnerable to another man's attention?

I think you attempted to validate her feelings, but it failed. It failed b/c even I can see through it. You did not "understand" her feelings. If you understood you would stop repeating the same offenses that hurt them. It is actually better to not say anything, than to tell a woman you know how she feels. And then......you added how both of you were hurt. That's true, but it was bad timing. She's trying to express her hurt and frustration at the moment, and trying to tell you what is causing it.......and guess what? You are not listening!! At least, not with your heart.

I was going to comment on several of the next paragraphs in your post, but I don't really see anything more than tit-for-tat behavior. From her point of view, you probably looked just as bad as she looked from your view point.

Why did she start being nice to me and the kids? Was it something I said? Guilt? Lure me back in? Insanity? I initially thought that maybe she thought about what I said and decided to wade back in, but now I’m not so sure.

Well, from what you reported, I don't think it had anything to do with you. And, I really don't think it was guilt. Having guilt requires feeling a certain amount of remorse......and she has not reached that point yet.......if she's having an A. I believe I can safely say she was not trying to "lure you back in". Insanity? Who knows. The things you pointed out, such as to how many times she took you birthday cake.....to saying she would never throw away a card from you.......to telling you to be careful driving, is a man over-focused on the small stuff. I mean, where I live, telling someone to be careful is just another way of saying good-bye. You took its meaning way too seriously. It's more habit than anything else, so don't waste energy pondering over little things like that.

It is more important for you to stop repeating the things you've done to cause so much resentment. For instance, the fact she has felt forced to live in a place she hates. I have lived in a lot of different places. While I loved some, and a few I hated. Environment, weather, culture differences, etc., plays a big factor with some people. The way your W sees you refusing to move away from the cold weather state, is you being stubborn, maybe even a little selfish and not wanting to do something she feels is important to her overall well being and happiness. Now, how much difference it would actually make in her, IDK. But these factors have caused significant resentment for a long time, and it apparently had no affect in your decision to stay in the place she hates to live. What if it was reversed and you had to live wherever she decided?

During this time was she trying to tell me she wanted to talk and I missed it? She never once said she did, and all of our conversations were in front of and/or involved the kids. We never got close to the R subject in that time and never talked about anything personal. We were never alone at any time. Was she waiting for me to make a move?

I suggest you stop thinking about talking, and just practice listening. If you are missing anything, it's b/c you are not really hearing her. But no, I don't think she was mysteriously trying to get you to make a move.