My Journey with WAS (Part 8)

[Maika]

Hey J! Thanks man for the thoughtful comments. Just been thinking about it today for a bit.

It does appear that you are feeling insecure and something about your perception of your W has really struck a chord with you. Dig deep and determine why that really is

I saw her last weekend over a kid activity. She's all done up now, when previously she never cared too much about it. I mean her hair and makeup and it was just too much. Like she was hiding who she is and it was just overdone. Also, I saw a pic of her on SM and she looked very happy and a completely different person. That really bothered me.

I think it reinforced the feelings of being disposable and being discarded like I was garbage. I didn't even mean enough for her to even try. Tried to get away from me as fast as possible, like I was the plague. How can she be happy and putting on this completely new lifestyle? Like the past didn't matter at all. As if she has shed some old skin and moving on to the next thing. I guess I am just feeling really devalued and unworthy of even getting another chance.

You have often indicated that your W would have to make a bunch of changes and in your response to Nicole you even indicate that you know she wasn't the best partner for you.

Yeah completely. All the issues that I can think of and how she was a crappy spouse to me are definitely true. But, I also believe that all those things are workable and we can figure them out. There wasn't anything that was such a deal breaker that I would not consider working on 'us'. Everything she had an issue with me, I could say that right back at her and so I know that she wasn't the best partner for me. But, it wasn't all broken.

If that is the case why does it all matter?

I really don't know man. I don't know why I am so bothered and W taking so much mental real estate. I think it must have to do with my ego and being rejected. She even said to me that I am amazing, but still booted my a$$ to the curb. I guess not amazing enough. I don't know why I am emotionally wrecked lately, but I want it to go away.

What values as a man do bring to a relationship? What are the good qualities about M that you can draw strength and confidence from? You deserve to be with someone who wants to be with you. Who wants to be with M whether he is making 50k per year or 100k per year.

Definitely. I am trying to make sure I know the value I bring and what are some great things about me.

I explored this deep with my IC when I had the same feelings you do.

I think I need to do that with my IC. I haven't felt this terrible since BD and I can't wrap my head around why it is happening now.

Change some stuff if you want because you want to do it for yourself.

I got that covered for sure. I plan to keep going with my commitments to myself and changing things up for good.

[TBSakaJ9]

M.....it does appear to be all about your ego and self-esteem. Do you feel like your missing out on something or that your W is going places and it is a place where you would like to be? Do you feel that your projecting what you want out of life? Maybe these feelings are coming up again because you are inching closer to the 1 yr mark and some finality is starting to set in.

What would she say about you? Look at him he has lost weight, is working out and got new clothes, etc. He isn't the same. Why didn't he do this when we were together? Could she feel that you have moved on as well? Your projecting some and trying to mind read where she is at or how she feels.

I can tell you it has not been all roses for me but I know who I am, what I want and where I am going. Seeing my W happy does not bother me, good for her. When I see her with new clothes on and this seemingly new attitude I don't sweat it. I know deep inside she is still the same person, with the same issues and she hasn't changed a bit. Your W hasn't done the work either, she is still the same, don't be fooled.

Remember she didn't throw you away or discard you. You are the one who didn't chase or pursue so who was the one that really did the dumping? I can tell you that I do not feel that my W was the one that initiated our D. Since I never pursued or chased I feel it is mutual at this point in time. I don't feel that she dumped me but that I dumped her. Maybe I wasn't the one that initially wanted it but my mindset changed. As we were walking out of the courthouse last week, after filing the D paperwork, she looked at me and made a comment about not many people go file their own D that they didn't want and I responded back to her saying "what makes you think I didn't want this?". She looked at me and was speechless.

I like the idea of you exploring this with your IC. Maybe you are cycling some if reality is starting to set in. Maybe you are starting to let go of some of that hope. I know I did a little bit towards the end and I think it is a normal response.

Just remember to validate yourself you don't need anyone else to do it.

[slater]

Maika, dude, you post with your heart man. You have no compunction about putting on this board how you really feel. Good for you! Even to strangers, that must be hard. Hard to admit your ego is bruised, that she seems to have discarded you without a second thought...all those feelings, wow. I feel more empathy for you than most.

I wonder what your ex would say. Would she tell a different story? Would she say she tried for years but couldn't get through? Maybe, but in my view...having only heard your side...she is a fool, mainly because of your children and their ages. And she's not happy, no way, not buying that. She has to present that image to the world, why do you think that pic was the one chosen for the world to see? She has to know that her life and the lives of her children are going to be a little less full as a result of her decision. And harder still as a result of knowing that you were willing to make an effort, to show her all you've learned and that your family was worth the effort...but she resisted all the same (assuming she doesn't do a 180 in the next few months). That will be very difficult for her to live with as the years go by...and she may look different at times but I've noticed at other times you can catch a glimpse and they are exactly the same person, just older and a little more worn from the experience.

And Joseph9, how do you do it dude? You are the king of DB'ing! You seem to take it all in stride with little or no setbacks, no anger, no regret and no punitive behavior. You also seem to have resigned yourself to it being done, maybe because as you say, she has shown you nothing to suggest she's coming around. She is, by her conduct, done and done. Maybe that makes it easier, because it doesn't seem to bother you in the slightest.

I know we are supposed to be happy for them if they are happy, makes them a better mother (father) and all that, but how do you do it? How do you not harbor some anger that your kids are growing up with each of you only in their lives half-time? The things your kids will now be denied due to financial constraints that would have never been a factor and is not at all their doing.

Don't mean to depress anyone here but these are the realities of young families breaking apart.

The two of you are about on the same timeline, have similar sitches, and are both doing all the right things. I have to think that one or both of you will reconcile (or at least have the opportunity if you want it), but it may be too late for your exes, and for J9's, it may already be too late.

Good luck you two, I hope the best for you and your families.

[Vapo]

M,

you are missing the point here. Have you even read DB and DR? The Xs are overcompensating in layman's terms they are putting on a show. Right after a break-up, they feel freed from the shackles of the relationship and they flourish. And just like a peacock they show their feathers to attract a new mate (quite possibly they already have someone in their sights).

They are floating on cloud 9 of their newfound happiness and it takes time for them to realize that their dream is just that, a fantasy. Sooner or later their world starts to cave around them and for the life of them they cannot figure out why.

Also you are still not looking into yourself. You do have to own up to your part in the destruction of marriage. You were not faultless here. And for you to say that your W looks all dolled up, and why she could not at least try to make the M work. Well do I have news for you. Chances are that your W has been "trying" to make it work for at least a couple of years and you were just to stubborn to realize it. In hindsite you will be able to recognize it, to recognize the signs, but you are still early into your sitch. You will come to realize this fact in due time.

You really do need to shift your focus from her and onto you. She has began her journey and you should get going on your, there really is no reason for you to be shuffling your feet (still)...

Get you a$$ in gear now...

[Vanilla]

so you chose to ignore

Haha! Thanks for that. I am attentive to language but for some reason I still chose those words. A good reflection of not really being able to reframe and approach it differently. So, the 2x4 on that was good. Now onto the goals. Let's do a retry.

1. To be a committed ex-smoker on a daily basis so that I can keep climbing and being physically healthy. I reward myself by....

Much better. However it's still a moving away from goal not a towards something goal.

2. I am enjoying improving my physical and mental health and I work out at least 3 times a week, and I going indoor climbing at least 2 times a week, with an increase of 10% in strength, agility, and focus. I buy myself some wonderful fitted clothes to show my new figure.

Terrific! You are getting there

3. I am improving constantly and I determinedly take on more managerial tasks with my team, I clearly identify new skills to learn and enjoy learning them. I have a 2-5 year written plan for career development and as a result I earn 10,000? more by 31 January 2019. I can treat myself and my kids to a fun holiday.

Small fix to add measure, otherwise great goal

4. I am joyously committed to improving my relationship with my children by listening and validating their feelings, and giving them space to participate in decision-making on some things that affect them. I ensure this happens every time they stay overnight? I apologise to my children when I don't follow through and rectify as soon as I can. I am an awesome dad having true connection with my children.

Small fix for accountability

5. I am committed to reading/writing at least once a week. I have a short story ready to send for publication by 1 June 2018.

Great goal

6. I am committed to improving my blood sugars/blood pressure by testing and recording my blood and BP every day, taking the medications as needed, and creating in advance a weekly menu with healthy food and cooking with passion and commitment and I glow with health.

Excellent

7. I am enthusiastically committed to improving my mental and emotional well being by reflectively engaging in reframing my thoughts, understanding and processing emotions, taking a wider perspective, with self-compassion and gratitude in a daily journal?.

How does this list look V?

------------------

Much better, much much better. Get this right as a technique and your world will change radically. Goals can be flexible too, you can add, subtract and don't forget rewards.

Now a suggestion if I may?

Get a pin board and have these on that pin board, add pictures to represent what you want. You can even do a dummy payslip showing the increase in your pay by 1,000 per month. Or add a page from the magazine you want to be published in. Pictures of happy kids and a dad.

Go to it!

You are on your way.

V

[TBSakaJ9]

And Joseph9, how do you do it dude? You are the king of DB'ing! You seem to take it all in stride with little or no setbacks, no anger, no regret and no punitive behavior

S.....I have had my moments. I am not perfect and still struggle from time to time. I will tell you though that I have put in the work. Reading, researching, implementing and self-discovery have been huge for me. I was not a perfect spouse and neither was my W....I don't know anyone who is, you know? We are all flawed, no relationship is perfect and it takes two people to work at it. I was willing, my W was not (maybe she tried to work on it in her own way but didn't include me in the process), her choice, her decision.

I am a kind, caring, loving, giving person. I am an engaged father who loves his D's fiercely and will always be there for them. I am laid back, easy going, I am calm, I do not yell or scream, I am not controlling, I like to laugh and have fun. I could go on and on but my point is that I know who I am and what I have to offer. I have no reason to be angry. Her loss she is a fool.

My issue is that some times I am too laid back, too passive. I got lazy in my MR, took things for granted, we didn't grow together as a couple and unfortunately I didn't realize it soon enough. I was one of those people who thought D would never happen because we had never discussed it before and I didn't know we were having problems until then end. I was naïve but not a bad husband.

I do hate that my W was not willing to work on it and that does cause me some anger from time to time. I have also lost respect for her as well. I am also sad that my children will not get to experience an intact family with M and D taking family trips together but I can't control it. I am determined though to do everything in my power to make sure my D's are well adjusted and have a happy childhood filled with good memories.

Maybe there is a FOG or MLC but maybe those are just terms we have made up to help mitigate the pain because it is easier to use those terms as an excuse than it is to look deep inside ourselves. Truthfully people change, situations change, circumstances change, what you want or value in a MR or R can change to. It is what it is.....$hit happens all the time. Maybe we picked bad spouses, overlooked too much early on or maybe this is happening exactly as it is supposed to. Who knows......either I can get busy living or get busy dying.

It was a shot to the ego early on but when I self-reflect back on who I am as a person and my values I know this is more about her than me. She really is a fool and that helps mitigate my anger, my desire to punish and helps me move forward. Will she ever have regrets. Who knows? My ego will say she will but in reality D happens all the time and people never look back. I would like to think she will but I am not going to stand around and worry about it.

I do understand though for some it is really hard. Especially if you are not proud of yourself, of who you have become or how you have conducted yourself in the MR. I didn't feel like I had a lot to change. Some tweaks here and there but no radical transformations. So for me it was just getting over and processing the punch to the gut. I think the mistake that most people make is that they try to tackle too many things all at once. Start with small goals and work your way up, small bites...don't try to eat the pizza all at once or you will get overwhelmed and when that happens one tends to stay still.

Finally, when I think about who my W is walking away from it helps me be compassionate towards her and also helps me be sincere when I say I hope she finds her happiness. Just because she doesn't want to be with me doesn't mean that I am a bad person or that their is something wrong with me. It just means that for whatever reason I am not who she wants in a spouse but that is not necessarily a reflection on me. I could meet a beautiful women tomorrow that loves me for who I am without changing a thing! I try real hard to not take things personally.

I have to think that one or both of you will reconcile (or at least have the opportunity if you want it), but it may be too late for your exes, and for J9's, it may already be too late.

If my W ever has a change of heart it won't be until after we are D. The fat lady is warming up those pipes!

[Maika]

J…. I just feel like she left me behind and now her life is all rosy. I know it’s my perception of what’s going on with her, and I believe it is my projection of some things that I want out of life as well. Mostly some more financial success. She always made more than I did, which never bothered me and still doesn’t. In the marriage, I figured that she will always make more than me, and with her taking the financial stability of the family as her responsibility, I could focus on some things for myself and take care of the kids and family related stuff while still having a job. But, now, I recognize that I need to increase my income to be able to save for my retirement and for the kids futures. I feel she’s ahead in all of that and her walking away destroyed all of that.

I like how you reframed the ‘feeling discarded’ train of thought. That’s amazing what you said to her outside the courthouse and her reaction to it. Reading that made me realize that is exactly how I am feeling too – wanting a D because I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t respect, love, or want me for who I am.

I think I am cycling in and out a bit and reality is definitely starting to set in. I went climbing last night and it was a good way to get all of this out. I pushed myself a bit more than I should’ve, but I need to take that anger out. Going again tonight and getting more out of my system.

Slater….. man, one of the things that I had a very hard time with was being vulnerable and more open with people. I am trying to do a 180 on that (slowly)… I didn’t want to go from being a closed person to someone who just vomits out everything. But, I started taking smaller risks with people and letting them in and seeing how it goes. So, I followed the same thing for this board and it has been cathartic and useful for me. Everyone here spends time reflecting on my sitch and providing thoughtful comments.

I have tried really hard to think of the past to see if there were signs that I missed about her state of mind and what she was going through. And I have to say that I can think of some small conversations about things that were tangential, but now when I look back and reflect on them, I think they were hints about her state of mind that I completely missed. But, it was so obtuse that I don’t know how I would’ve picked up on it. We seriously had communication issues.

I know that I will be okay and she will have to live with the fact that she just made the lives of my kids less full and joyous. I don’t know how that option is better than at least trying to work on it. Yeah, the reality of the kids lives drastically different than what I was hoping for and planned.

Vapo….. thanks for the reminder. I have read DB and DR. I don’t mean to get defensive, but I take your 2x4s as sometimes you do need the kick in the a$$ to get back to the basics. I know what I contributed to the marriage breakdown and I have been working on it for a while now. I was doing well emotionally and mentally, and then suddenly fell of the wagon and didn’t understand why. But you’re right, I need to bring my focus back onto me and keep moving forward. I am getting my a$$ in gear 

Vanilla…… Thanks for the edits and fixes. List looks great. I will definitely put this up on a board with what you recommended. Visual cues are so helpful. Reframing… reframing…

Overall, I am happy with who I am and I know where I need to make improvements for myself. I know what I bring to the game! I just need to validate myself more, and practice self-compassion and self-love.
J… that last post is MONEY!!! Thanks!

[TBSakaJ9]

M - Her life is not all rosy and you know that. She hasn't done the work you have.

From a financial standpoint it sounds like your describing what a stay at home spouse might feel. Does that sound accurate? You and your W made choices together that put you (individually) in a job that might have offered you flexibility but not necessarily the income to match but it worked for your situation. Now that this has happened it has put you in a stressed financial situation? Is that causing some of the anger as reality sets in?

Yes.....you need to practice more self-love and constantly remind yourself of your good qualities! Every time I feel weak I remind myself of everything I am blessed to have and also think about what changes my W would need to make and what I was unhappy with. It helps to put my mind at ease.

She was not a perfect spouse either

[Maika]

Her life is not all rosy and you know that. She hasn't done the work you have.

Yeah for sure. She has her uni program going on and so that's either keeping her distracted enough to not think about all of this. When I think of how she will feel 'loss', I don't see it coming to her until her program is over. Again, just speculating. It may never come.

From a financial standpoint it sounds like your describing what a stay at home spouse might feel. Does that sound accurate? You and your W made choices together that put you (individually) in a job that might have offered you flexibility but not necessarily the income to match but it worked for your situation. Now that this has happened it has put you in a stressed financial situation? Is that causing some of the anger as reality sets in?

Yeah I think you're right. She was always more ambitious than me and I wasn't sure what my career would look like. One of her early jobs allowed for her to create the career path she's on now - to her absolute credit, she totally engineered this path for herself from this entry level position and had the ambition and vision to do it. It's actually quite an amazing thing what she did for her career.

On my side, I got stuck with crap jobs with no advancement. I was also not as ambitious as her and didn't put as much effort into my career path - which definitely contributed to her losing respect for me. I also went through long bouts of depression which didn't help in the career path situation. But, I took jobs with more flexibility or stayed home for long stretches to take care of the kids so that we wouldn't be paying huge money for daycare and raise kids ourselves. So my flexibility created the space for her to go for more gung ho jobs with longer hours and lots of travel - she knew that I had home life taken care of and she never had to worry about that. I thought that was going to be our trade off. She even told me at one point 2 years ago that she is looking forward to becoming so financially secure and raising her income to a really high level so that I could pursue some of my own interests and work that wouldn't pay much.

I guess I am just coming to the rude awakening that the arrangement we had is completely over and I have to pull up my socks to get financially secure. I know I will figure out a way to increase my earning potential, but I am not sure how right now. I need to think seriously about what type of career I want and what I need to do to make my kids futures secure.

I have become a lot more self-compassionate to myself, which has helped in figuring out my goals and processes to get there.

W definitely wasn't a perfect spouse either and we'll see what the future holds.

[TBSakaJ9]

M - Makes sense on the financial piece. Not sure what to tell you other than you know what you need to do. Maybe you will meet a Sugar Momma .