Hoping this can be saved, but having doubts

[joejoe1]

Reframe,

GALing and being kind is a very fine line. It's also full of emotions. You have to go with what works and not with what you are feeling.

Let your W do all the physical initiation. It will be small things, like bumping up against you. Grabbing your arm. Placing her hands somewhere on you. Just pay attention for those signs. Do not get overly excited when they happen.

You being physical should be the last thing you try to win back. Work on gaining her respect. You Will know when she is ready to be physical.

Don't be mean or cold and GAL: Go out and do things for yourself. If your W ask where you are going. Let her know. (Don't say none of your business) But don't go out your way to offer details. Enjoy your life. It's going to be hard not to think about the M, but GALing will show you that you will be ok no matter what happens with the M.

Read up on detaching with love. Even if you recon, you still will have to learn not to be dependent on your W. Detaching shows her that you can stand on your own. And thru all of this you can still be kind to her.

Being kind is not being taken advantage of. Being kind comes from a strong, confident person. If you feel as thou you are being taken advantage of, then you have went past the point of kindness, and most likely into the realm of pursuit.

Example: Saying good morning is being kind. Speaking in any fashion is being kind. But, saying what do you want me to do for you today is pursuing. Let her come to you and don't offer yourself up until you'll are officially in recon. But, be flexible with all of this, if you are going to the store and its clearly out of the way, it's ok, to ask her if she needs something.

Onward and forward

[reframe]

Eventful weekend.

I screwed something up Sat night related to one of our shared activities. W freaked on me, got pissed off and withdrawn.
I called her on it, and the discussion of the issue at the forefront became a R talk.

It was so so, she indicated that she had trouble trusting me because I wasn't there when she was sick, and I have always made her feel inadequate.
That she wasn't sure if things could be fixed, but she didn't know what she wanted to do. She also told me that she was not turned on all the time, just not attracted to me. She expected that to be really hurtful, but I said I understood, and that I'd be surprised if she was turned on in light of all the anger she was harboring for me.
She also indicated that she still does care about me deeply, and (like me) misses her best friend.

I suggested that we try a marriage positive therapist, but that it was only worthwhile if she was on board with it. She said she's consider it and that we'd talk again soon.


She also said that according to our prenup she'd essentially get nothing. (Assets were divided in anticipation of her having her own business).
I told her I was planning on giving her one of our cars if we separated, and she is now excited about trading it in for a better daily driver.

So on one hand, suggesting that we get out of relationship limbo and doing something that could speed up her timeline to be able to leave may be a mistake. On the other hand, we're communicating openly now, and I'm showing her that I won't stand in her way if she wants to leave. I also feel like if we have a future together, she'll need to be able to get past some of the hurt and anger from the past.

We left it at "we'll talk again soon". We kissed (sincerely) and said goodnight. It felt we were communicating openly, which is a start.

The next day she was more positive and affectionate to me, and I reciprocated a bit too hard, then did some "talking about the future". Not good, and she called me on it later in the day.
She was generally pleasant though, and friendly this morning.
I think this may be a positive step, I just need to really focus on not backsliding.

[reframe]

typo:
"she told me that she is now turned on all the time, sleeping with me just isn't appealing"

[reframe]

So, I think this IS a positive thing. But it's still slightly terrifying.
W has been more friendly, and sharing more day to day with me.

We had a frustrating experience with a late night, and dinner last night, and she didn't lash out at me and handled things much better.

She's excited about getting a car, and says it feels empowering that she'll own something of her own. She's also asked me to come test drive cars with her, and is generally acting more like a friend, and including me more.

I realize that my not trying to interfere (And actually facilitating her leaving if she wants to) is probably a good thing, since I'm removing pressure and not trying to control her. I'm showing her that I won't stand in her way, but I can't shake the fear that I just moved our timeline forward, which isn't what I want to do.

I'm going out on my own this evening, and she'll be seeing her individual therapist tomorrow. She'll probably be discussing if she's willing to attempt to save things then, which makes this all kinda terrifying as well. I'm second guessing myself and wondering if our discussions the other day about not being in limbo are applying pressure I didn't want to apply.

I know that I need to GAL and detach a bit. I know that I need to let her go and see where this all shakes up...

[AnotherStander]

I suggested that we try a marriage positive therapist, but that it was only worthwhile if she was on board with it. She said she's consider it and that we'd talk again soon.

Look at your signature:

Bomb 10/2017 - "Not sure what she wants"
Bomb #2 12/2017 - I forced convo (dumb) it did not go well.

See Bomb #2? How many more of those bombs do you want? Pushing for MC is PRESSURE and right now she wants ZERO pressure from you. You apply pressure then she's just going to BD you again. You've got to give her lots of time. Your sitch is barely 4 months old, it may seem like forever to you but you've just barely started the marathon. Every time you apply pressure you go back to the starting line.

So on one hand, suggesting that we get out of relationship limbo and doing something that could speed up her timeline to be able to leave may be a mistake. On the other hand, we're communicating openly now, and I'm showing her that I won't stand in her way if she wants to leave. I also feel like if we have a future together, she'll need to be able to get past some of the hurt and anger from the past.

Try not to think of the terms of a future together right now. Think about what your personal goals are and work on those. Detach!

We left it at "we'll talk again soon". We kissed (sincerely) and said goodnight. It felt we were communicating openly, which is a start.

I don't want to dash your hopes because there is always hope given proper time. But rather, I am trying to get you to temper your expectations. Right now she's two feet out the door and looking forward to her new life of independence. When she says things like "we'll talk again soon" it means absolutely nothing. She's just saying it to appease you. You saw how excited she was about the car, that's because that's a symbol of her new life independent of you. That's where her head is right now and she will be for quite some time. Try to find a deep well of patience!

The next day she was more positive and affectionate to me, and I reciprocated a bit too hard, then did some "talking about the future". Not good, and she called me on it later in the day.

= pressure! Just keep reminding yourself- ZERO pressure!

[reframe]

Thanks man, I realize you're right. I need to scale things WAY back to remove pressure and continue to GAL. Not backsliding when I see little signs that my wife is still in there is really though.

On the plus, she has been acting like she actually likes me over the last few days, but she clearly does have two feet out the door.

She's actually been so overly enthusiastic about the car that she's overbooking herself trying to do it NOW. That makes me question if even mentioning it was a smart decision, but that die is cast.

[reframe]

I'm chewing back panic right now.

Despite the signals that the wife doesn't know what she wants, all signs still
point to separation and D.

My own demons keep wanting to tell me this is my fault.
Snooping is the scab I keep picking at, probably hoping to find something to be hopeful about, but instead finding more to be despondent about.

The other part of me just wants to get it over with.

[LH19]

R,

Are you in IC? Why is this your fault? Look man I saw your post on DDs and I have to ask you why you are trying to hug and cuddle with a woman who doesn't find you appealing?

Just trying to understand what your thinking right now.

[reframe]

LH19 -

I'm not longer actively pursuing physical affection, I'm leaving that to her.

W.r.t the feeling that it's my fault. We all her our insecurities. My wife's is not being good enough, my own revolve around messing up my relationships.
I know (sometimes that this isn't a rational way to feel).

That said, I did a number of things wrong:
If you take a look at my intro - I was in IC when she had her latest round of health issues. I had been seeing an IC and starting to GAL then, and the wife was responding well to it - but I continued to GAL when she felt like she needed me. So (at least in her hindsight) I wasn't there for her.

I asked both her doctor and her therapist about our sex life too, and I think that was really hurtful to her in hindsight. She was going through some major health issues and I was still focused on that.

Things took a rapid downhill swing around then. She went from seeming fully on board and committed to me and our future together to where we are now.

I realize that ruminating on the past won't change it, but I'm still struggling with the feeling that if I'd just been patient and supportive we wouldn't be in this mess now.

[DblDown]

Hi reframe, you're not wrong about snooping, it's like an addiction for me. Checking phone records, Instagram, coat pockets, handbag...I only find pain when I do it. What's that about?! I've got to tell myself it's not worth it.