Hi Benito, thanks for posting all those guidelines based on your own experience. It's encouraging to hear how your strength and ability to change yourself for the better worked for you!
Hi Maika, glad you are doing ok. I think something to remember is that just because the end result might not be as you want it to be at the moment, it doesnt mean that your effort or your growth isnt good enough or correct.
Just so you are aware, I still get wound up inside sometimes and I feel the same as i used to... I just give myself a second to think nowadays which goes along the lines of.."would me going nuts right now, make this situation any better?" 9/10 its a "No it wont", so I keep my trap shut.
I do think a big key to a good relationship is communication. I still express my thoughts and concerns, but do it through a filter of compassion. If I didnt say it, I wouldnt be true to myself and I couldnt live with that. But THE WAY its said is the big change for me.
I think learning to be alone, and to be comfortable in your own skin is a such a long and hard journey and most people in long term relationships dont have to address it, as they constantly have the other partner validating them throughout.
Stay focused on yourself and what will be will be. We sometimes forget the fragility of life worrying about little things and we lose time (where we should be enjoying oursleves) as we try and fit into someone else's ideal.
Thanks man! Being able to express how I feel in a constructive and compassionate way is something I want to be able to do with people who are close to me. So, I want to accomplish that regardless of whether W comes back or not.
I am taking that extra couple of seconds when I feel getting wound up with my kids to think whether or not this requires me to be stern. If not, then I just quickly let go and address the situation more calmly. For all honesty, I've had my slip-ups but the more and more I do it, the better I get at it.
I am paying attention to the way I say things as well and take a moment to really calibrate my words rather than just being reactionary.
Learning to be comfortable in your own skin and being alone is definitely the lesson here. I am getting better at it.
Keep up the great work, you are a true role model!
Hello!,
Wow - its a good job I still lurk from time to time otherwise I wouldn't of seen this.
It would have been better if you could have read it from the beginning, but there were more than enough clues in the posts etc.. for someone to have an idea who I was, so I requested they come down.
I will have a read of your situation and get back to you.
Cheers for the compliment. Believe me when I say I was an absolute wreck when I came here. Co-dependent as hell as spiraling into a deep hole of black despair.
The outcome might has been positive - but I wouldn't want to live those 8/9 months again that is for sure.
Looking back I think its is fair to say that because of my upbringing and environment I never really had a strong belief in own my self worth or had a true idea on what I really wanted in life. As such I started to look (subconsciously) at other people whether it be on TV, Aunties or Uncles, or Friends to make an imaginary idea of what would constitute a good or successful life.
I think a lot of people do this personally. Reading your posts, you do type things such as "other people were jealous of us" - which lead me to believe that you might have fell into the same trap. i.e. In your mind, your relationship was something other people were envious of - so in your mind its like - "how can this go wrong when it was so good" - or words/thoughts to that effect.
The issue is that sometimes we fall into these roles, even though they may be there to serve as a functional part of a relationship i.e. you do the washing, and I will do the ironing - the actual unspoken aspects of what make a true relationship work i.e independence, freedom of choice etc.. Are forgotten about. This is all well and good when we are BOTH fully integrated into our routine. However when sh*t hits the fan, and one partner has an 'awakening' - they start to look at life for what it really is - A one off opportunity to experience life and they become fully "present". (Eckhart Tolle can teach you about this). With this presence all of their senses are turned on and they look at their life around them in a completely new way and think "what the f**k am I doing with my life"??.. This isnt what I want.
It isnt what they want because they are now in touch with what life 'could' offer them. i.e. opportunity, a new start, new hobbies, friends, a new career etc.. And all that is exciting and fresh and new. You are not the husband anymore - you are the person stopping them for wanting to achieve these things. Of course, in reality this MAY not be the case, but for them its pretty simple - you ARE the issue and you are the person that is stopping them (and has stopped them in the past) from living a life they didn’t know they wanted before now.
This goes some way to explaining why pleading and showing them photos of happy times never actually works - because they have already labelled that time as "wasted time" - so no amount of reminding them of time they wasted is going to make them come back. If anything, it makes them realise how much you are STILL stuck in the past and they are making the correct decision to walk away.
The bad news is that there is actually no way to fix this, as you can not cage or control another human beings thoughts or feelings. This is a very cold and harsh reality - but something that you have to go through, feel through and cry through before you can truly look at the situation for what it is.
It would take far too long to describe everything that happened in my situation, but one thing she did say upon returning 9 months later that really stuck with me and should give you some idea of what they need to feel in order to reconsider the situation.
She said "I began to wonder to myself, was I willing to experience life without this new you"
The key in that sentence for me is "experience life".
Underneath the label of wife (i.e. looking after kids, doing the shopping, cleaning etc) is a girl who at one point had the world at her finger tips. Society moulds us, but in her heart she still is that girl. She will always want to be that girl. She wants someone to be by her side as she experiences life - to advise her but not control, to protect but not smother her, to excite her but not to disrespect.
Relationships should be about 2 individuals who are there to support each other as we experience life and try to achieve our own goals. Not to argue over who does the dishes.
I to used to berate my mrs about being a little laid back when it came to cleaning. But I went about it all the wrong way. Bizarrely enough we had a chat about this on Monday and since she came back I have a new way of dealing with things that respects her as an individual but also keeps what I believe to be important intact. I said "Could you do me favour please, in the grand scheme of things, I am not bothered what the house looks like, as in the grand scheme of things it really isnt important and it is defiantly nothing I want to fall out with you about, however it would make me feel a little better if when I came home from work you had moved the bin bag that has needed to be taken outside for 2 days now. Its only a small thing I know, but it makes me feel like I am doing things on my own sometimes, and I would appreciate your help every so often on keeping the house tidy".
That is in stark contrast to - For f**ks sake.. Is the bin bag still there?? What have you been doing all day why I have been at work?? Do I have to do everything myself??
Same message - but one is speaking to my lazy wife who I am fed up with, the other is expressing my thoughts to my partner who I respect.
I think if your honest with yourself you would probably not treat a new girlfriend the way you treat or speak to your wife. You would probably be more upbeat, be more loving, more spontaneous, more thoughtful. Because you are not on autopilot with someone new, you are present, dealing with each new situation the best you know how. With your wife its same old same old and its this behaviour that has pushed her away.
As it stands you need to be honest with yourself. Life is NOT what society has told us. We are a bunch of monkeys trapped on a rock flying through space (lol), there are no rules, no guarantees, and all of us are doing are best to survive. You need to understand how you fell into the society trap, how you took her for granted, and how you spent time doing things that society told you was important, but deep down you knew/know what REALLY is important.
Your probably going to go through hell, but it is necessary. You need to let her go and start from basics. Write on a pace of paper, your name, age, dreams and goals. Genuine answers only! Then you need to accept that a lot of what you do, or say or feel is to get a reaction from your Wife - this needs to stop. Everything is about you now. Not a husband or a father. The boy underneath. The more you become in contact with that person, the closer you will come to ending this cycle of chasing what you think you need/makes you happy - and the closer you will come to being the person you actually truly are.
This is the person that a partner will be attracted to. Actions are 100000000X more powerful than words or promises. And when you are not afraid to live as your genuine self, people like float into your life without you trying because it will be genuine.
It’s a scary jump to take - once you jump off that cliff and realise you can fly - its as liberating a feeling as you will ever feel. You just have to have faith (not religious) just faith that the universe will work itself out and you will come out of this and be happy.
Have a read of Melody Beattie - Codependant no more And No more Mr Nice Guy - Robert Glover
Wow. Benito, what you just wrote hits home big time. Changing the way one communicates in situations makes a huge difference. I'd like to throw one idea in here. Before one let's ones thoughts out it would be a good idea to make sure the other one is available on all levels to hear it. So why not make an appointment? "Honey, I'd like to talk to you about xxxx, would now be a good time?" Is yes, go for it. If not for ANY reason reschedule it within a day. I've started to use this and it's quite easy. It doesn't take the other one by surprise. But this is just a thought...
Me:39 W:36 S:12 D:9 T:14 M:11 Separation:sep. 1 2017 D filed oct. 2017 D finalized july 2018 OM confirmed feb 2018 D finalized July 2018
The fact is this. You have to be in pain before you can learn.
I sincerely appreciate that response. It resonated with me in a big way, especially my thinking of everyone was envious of our relationship, etc. You are completely correct about her wondering what she is doing with her life, she expressed that to me. I now realize that I was doing what society told me to do in a relationship, but not what my heart was telling me to do.
I'm definitely co-dependent and have been working with a therapist on that. The hardest part is letting go of the relationship and to allow her to experience the journey on her own. The best thing I can do is be her lighthouse, to be a man any woman would be lucky to have and that only a fool with leave. I have to do this for myself and I find it a little easier each day to realize that.
I have saved your response because it is full of great insight that I feel directly applies to my situation. It is something that I will continue to re-read to keep myself on the right path.
Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to read my post and craft such a thorough response. I hope things continue to go well for you!
M:2.5 T:8 H:31 W:27 S:12 BD:1/4/2018 W Moved Out: 1/8/2018 OM Confirmed: 2/19/18
I have seen my name/situation referenced a couple of times recently so thought I would show my face and provide an update of sorts.
Everything is going very well. Better than it ever has been really - but to be honest this has probably got to do with my growth personally rather than me fixing anything with our relationship. I will say it again, the advise I got on here 100% helped shape the situation I find myself in today - so to all those that helped thank you once again.
Just a bit of guidance/clarification to all the newer members I would like to offer.
The information that you will receive on here from more senior members is invaluable. The key however is not to simply think "If I follow these steps, then everything will be ok", but to understand that there is a fundamental flaw in the way that you have conducted yourself in both your personal life and within the relationship that has led to this situation that needs brutal honesty to identify and address.
Not all relationships can or will be saved - there is no magic wand - however, the quicker people actually "get it" and understand that only their authentic self will attract and keep a partner happy the better.
There has been a couple of posters who have commented that one of the main reasons I was able to recon, was due to the fact that my W hadn't checked out fully and was "open" to the idea of coming back. While I 100% agree that having both children and an active third party involved would make things 10x times worse - Make no mistake about it - my W had gone. If the situation wasn't handled in the correct manner I would be divorced now.
After speaking to my W since, I am aware of the reasons she came back. So it can provide an insight into other similar situations and provide hope to the LBS.
In a nutshell, its totally accepting the relationship is gone, giving them space to breath and only responding to communication when is appropriate. All the efforts to save the relationship - pleading and begging simply puts further nails into the coffin. The reason some people fail in my opinion is because doing what I mention feels painful, risky and totally against what feels natural to do.
You will never run from pain. You can do things to ignore it - but it will always manifest itself in another form. The only way out - is through.
When you let go of trying to convince someone to stay and focus on you and you alone, the right people will be pulled towards you. If its your ex partner great.. If not you move on and make your next relationship better.
There is no such thing as failure, just another lesson if you want to accept it.
Some might feel "oh that’s easy for you to say" - No it wasn’t, I contemplated tying a rope in the garage a number of times.. It was really really bad. I have been there and I know how some of you feel so I hope that you can find some strength that if you start to authentically live through your true self and not through the labels you have created for yourself such as "husband" or "provider" or "accountant" or whatever, dropping that mental baggage will allow you to love yourself which will reflect outwards to other people.
Finally, to the ones that followed my story, my relationship with my parents was so so poor and mentally abusive. Now we get dinner each Tuesday evening and my mum even called round for chat on Sunday for 3 hours and it felt as natural as possible. A mum that is now proud of what I have done.
This is from a mum who laughed when it first happened "see, even your wife wants to leave you - when are you ever going to change?"
So its about changing your life not your relationship.
Change you.. And your relationship, both family and romantic will change without you actively trying to fix things directly… its bizarre how it all works.. But alas.. It does.
