Newb...need advice

[BB1]

The more I think about things the more I think we need to separate. This last event with buying the arcade game and hiding what he did and lying to me is really over the top (in my thinking - am I wrong?). He completely made up a story about wanting to help me get the fridge from my mom's house when I don't think he ever even intended to do that.

I keep thinking about me leaving because that is my bent, but my h has another house from his single days. I just don't think anything is ever going to change with us living together. How do I make it clear what needs to happen and insist on separation? What if he won't go?

[Holding]

Welcome, BB.

I get the feeling you're a month or two away from turning into a WAW. I think you have a real chance to turn things around here, but the distance is growing between you and your H. You recognize there are serious issues in your M, for yoursef and your H. That's a good start.

First off, are you in IC? Regardless of where the M goes, you've already identified your own stuff (codependency, fear of being alone) and should start working on that. If you get D'd, these issues will still remain unless you address them.

Tell your H exactly where you stand. Don't sugar coat anything. Tell him you're afraid of the direction your M is headed. Tell him his lying and hiding things is pushing you away. Tell him you've wondered if a separation would be helpful.

Maybe I'm projecting from my own sitch, but I wish my XW had said those things to me when she started down her dark path. But she hid it from me for months, until BD, when it was too late.

Act now while the door is still open.

[BB1]

Thank you Holding.

I am not in IC currently. I have done stints in the past but could never quite wrap my mind around the codependency issues (it just seemed so normal for me, despite my constant feelings of pressure and sadness in relationships). My eyes are more open now than ever before though. I have thought about IC again but just didn't want to spend the money. Well, that and, I really need someone who deeply understands codependency and attachment disorders to work with - this is more of a specialty and I didn't really find that last time.

[MoveFrwd]

I have several thoughts but it’s hard to write them out on my phone. I can’t even begin to understand the hopelessness that you express and I know that you are far stronger than you give yourself credit for.

My feeling is that divorce or no, you have a lot of your own issues to sort out. Getting a divorce isn’t going to solve those. You’ve already been divorced twice - and the same underlying issues persist. Regardless of your husbands behaviors, I think it is vital that you tackle your own insecurities and behaviors before it really matters what you do with H. It isn’t about H at this point, it’s about you. Otherwise, you’ll get divorced and then find a new man and a new set of problems and be just as overwhelmed then.

Please keep posting. I believe you are in a place that will be healthy for you.

[BB1]

I think I may be done. I am home and can't talk to him. The kitchen is covered in dirty dishes, the arcade machine is sitting like a beached whale in the middle of the garage, H is sitting on the couch looking at Facebook. I am on the verge of crying. I feel so unheard and disregarded. If I tell him how I feel, he won't listen. I can't focus to get my homework done. I realize I'm whining right now y'all. I'm sorry. I am just going to say nothing for now. I want to leave so bad.

[joejoe1]

BB1,

You have to take care of yourself. You have to be upfront and honest with your H. You have to call him out. If you dont, your bitterness will lead to resentment, and most LBS on this page knows the direction it can go from there.

I was a very prideful man. I still have pride, but I wasn't listening to my W. But when she dropped that bomb on me about not being in love with me, my eyes open quickly. Im not saying you have to go that far, but your H, has to hear you loud and clear. Maybe you should tell him he needs to leave for a while or you leave for a while to give yourself some time to think and your H a glimpse of what it would be like without you around. And when he shows you he is doing work then you go back. Especially if he is not willing to go to counseling.

[joejoe1]

BB1,

I'm not telling you to D or S. I'm telling you take time away if you can. Also this gives you a chance on working on being by yourself and not depending on another. You will see you don't need a man to validate you.

Keep posting.

Onward and forward

[MoveFrwd]

I feel so unheard and disregarded. If I tell him how I feel, he won't listen.

Have you been reading DR? It isnt only intended for someone that is left behind, but also for people like you considering divorce.

My basic advice is that by now, you and him have your patterns. He does X which results in you doing Y and then him doing Z and so on.And eventually things calm down until he does X again at which time it all restarts.

My feeling is that you need to start doing Q when he does X. Or R. Or S. Experiment with responses in a different fashion and see how he responds to them.

The key thing to remember is that HE is not going to be the one to change first. YOU have to be the one to change. You need to figure out how to push "positive response triggers" rather than the negative ones that you push now.

I feel like leaving is kind of the last option. It doesnt sound like it will be 'easier' with him gone and divorce brings its own set of challenges. Take some time and experiment. It wont be like this forever.

[MoveFrwd]

I stayed at my mom's for 2 reasons: 1, because I want H to know I'm not happy he lied to me about this arcade, spent all this money and now has stuck it in the garage with all the rest of his clutter. 2, because I don't know how to talk to him and just tell him how I feel, and even if I tell him how I feel, I know it won't do any good.

Youre right in that this isnt a very good response. I feel like effective boundaries need to be communicated ahead of time. And the boundary needs to be related to resulting action. He isnt going to be able to connect why you stayed at your mom's with the action. What exactly happened that would cause you to leave? lying? no communication? spending money? coming home late? With a giant combo like that, theres no way to connect what you are upset about with the result. And why would YOU leave? What about those things means "Im going to spend a night at my moms house"? That doesnt necessarily feel like the extension of one of those things. Id advise to read Wonka's thread on boundaries...I think it's very helpful.

So I am going home tonight and I have to do something. I have to talk to him somehow about how I feel about him lying to me. I have a ton of other stuff I want to talk about (like the garage) but I probably should steer clear of that right now.

It may be too late for advice, but I would have a list and keep yourself focused. Dont start talking about him lying to you and then stick in comments about dirty dishes and whatnot. Focus on one issue at a time. And dont act like he's doing you a favor. YOU have value and your needs are VALID. Say what you want.

- do I need to validate him somehow since he obviously felt the need to hide all of these activities? validate his feelings of fear?

Id say it's ok to validate his feelings....but not his actions. Remember that isnt AGREEING, but rather making it clear that you are hearing him. You arent to dispute his feelings or rationalize them. You are just to hear them. Then you can work to find solutions if he has concerns also.

Am I looking at this all wrong? Do I have good reason to be upset or am I just ball-busting and trying to control? Would like all advice I can get.

OF COURSE you have reason to be upset. It sounds like there are a LOT of reasons to be upset. But spring them all loose isnt going to solve anything. You need to stay on message, stay focused, explain what you want and listen.

You also need to have this conversation at a time when he is receptive to having it. If you spring this right after work, or as he is walking out the door or whatever, it wont go well. If you need to schedule something for a couple days later, do that.

Try to be rational and logical. Good luck!

[AnotherStander]

First of all I agree with Holding that you are showing all the signs of a WAW. And legitimately so, I think you're in a pretty lousy marriage to be honest. Now granted we're only hearing your half of the story and his may be a different perspective, but there's enough bad stuff going on that clearly something needs to change. I also agree with Holding that you should tell your H (not this minute, see below). Many of us can identify with your description of your H, a lot of us had similar issues. And many of us implemented some pretty drastic changes in ourselves after BD and became completely different people. The one thing a lot of us regret is that our W's didn't give us a wake-up call sooner, before it was "too late". So I would encourage you to tell your H you are done and ready to walk out the door unless he makes some very real, very drastic changes. Do not sugarcoat it at all, you've got to be clear and concise and he must know you're serious.

He typically thinks of himself over others, and I know this, and I don't think it makes him terrible or evil or anything like that.

Don't justify his bad behavior. If he's that selfish then yes, that DOES make him terrible and that is something no one should have to live with in a partner. The whole thing about him lying and manipulating you to get a trailer to go get that arcade machine, that is EXTREMELY selfish behavior. It is HORRIBLE behavior. I think you need to see this for what it is and quit trying to convince yourself it's not -that- bad. It is.

Here's the thing though. I recognize I am broken in some serious ways. I want to fix myself. I have made several steps forward over the last couple of years in coming out of some fog I was in, but I still don't feel like I really know my own self or my own feelings.

I second some of the other suggestions that you seek out IC. You're really dealing with two different issues- your own issues and your crappy marriage. IC will help with both. I suspect that the more personal issues you resolve then the more resolute you will become that the M is over. Don't get me wrong I am completely pro marriage but your H is the one that should be here on these forums and working on his issues. As long as he's not then your M is destined to fail.

I don't know if it's normal to feel so much resentment like I do.

It is very normal. Any WAS can identify with your feelings I think.

I don't know how to handle that resentment and not just want to walk away or lose it and yell at H.

You've got to open up to someone. If your H won't listen then a friend or a counselor, or both. And feel free to let it fly here too, although having someone to talk to face-to-face is best.

I recognize staying at my mom's house for reason 1 is probably manipulative. I don't know. It's a form of silent treatment or punishment, which has to be manipulative. He gives me the silent treatment all the time and I know for darn sure I take it as a punishment.

You are correct, it's a very passive/aggressive form of punishment. It's also quite ineffective and does more harm to relationships than good. The two of you DO NOT COMMUNICATE. That is your biggest issue. DR gets into dispute resolution a little, but I think Michele's book "Getting Through to the Man You Love:The No-Nonsense, No-Nagging Guide for Women" would be a better read for you considering where you are.

Why is the silent treatment so painful for me? I would like to know that. He doesn't seem bothered by the silent treatment at all. He may rather like it, lol.

Probably because it plays on your insecurities about the M. You feel insecure as it is, so the silent treatment is the ultimate way to hurt someone like you because you feel like you're in limbo. He in turn is probably controlling and manipulative, so he DOES enjoy giving you the silent treatment because it makes him feel powerful. What he doesn't realize is he's killing the M step by step, and by the time he finds out it may be too late.

- how do I approach this conversation without being bristly and cold? what do I actually say? how do I keep it very, very short?
- do I need to validate him somehow since he obviously felt the need to hide all of these activities? validate his feelings of fear?

For now just tell him the two of you need to have a very serious conversation, but you are collecting your thoughts first. Tell him you would like to set aside a couple of hours in a week or so to discuss the marriage. DO NOT get drawn into an immediate convo, just keep telling him you need time first and the discussion can happen in a week. Then get the above book and read it!