Well, I am not sure my situation is "extreme" enough to ask advice about here, but I am going to ask anyway and let someone tell me if I should move this to a different forum.
So my H is a good man. He's human - he's got some great qualities and some not so great ones. Me too. I'm a codependent, or at least I used to be. I was raised by a mother who constantly needed me to be something for her and because of that I never actually figured out who I was. I still don't really know. I struggle with an eating disorder on a daily basis, going on 18 years now, which I've come to learn has something to do with lack of proper attachment in childhood and control issues.
I was married once before also - got married at 19 and divorced at 25. That XH was controlling and verbally/physically abusive, and also sort of a moocher. He would randomly quit jobs, wouldn't do chores, relied on me heavily etc. I made most of our money, did most of the work around the house (including yard work and "man" work) and parenting of our daughter, and tried not to get him mad. At the very end I had gotten so depressed and resentful that I started saying things to him in a way I never had before, and he got so violent that it ultimately led to me leaving and filing for divorce.
Flash forward to now and my current H.
When my husband and I were dating, I pretty much bent over backwards to do everything for him and be very nice all the time. I was terrified of being dumped, terrified of him finding out my flaws. I found out he had a bad habit of lying about things (some serious things but lots of white lies). Some of these lies really triggered my insecurities, and I have always felt an uneasiness about things with him but my own deep need for some kind of security won out.
So, when my current H and I got married, we were only married for 8 months before I left. I had no idea how to handle some of his lies and his hiding things from me, and I just cold turkey left and divorced him.
We wound up getting back together, and we remarried. We have been remarried for almost 2 years now, but we didn't move back into the same house until last August. I didn't want a repeat of the first time and wanted to take things slow.
So now we are living together in the same house with our kids (we each have a kid from a previous marriage and we have 2 together, the youngest born last August). I'm again finding my H very hard to live with and I'm thinking about leaving. I love my H, but the reason I'm staying right now is really because of our kids. I have found myself so resentful toward him that every little thing becomes an issue.
Example - my H leaves for work at 6:20 am and returns sometimes at 6:30 pm or 7:30 pm or 8:30 pm...he's gone basically all day (and I could be wrong, but I don't think his job requires that actually). I leave for work later than him (around 7:30 am) and get kids ready and drop off two kids at daycare, then leave work around 4:30 pm to get to the daycare in time to get the kids and pick up our older kids too. I then go home and make dinner and do laundry and chores and feed our 5 month old and basically try to keep the inmates from killing each other. My husband comes home and pretty much just sits on the couch for the rest of the evening, doesn't really do anything usually. I've told him repeatedly that since I also work full-time that we need to trade off some days on who goes to work early/who leaves later, etc, but he never takes me seriously and then I start nagging about him coming home late every day and not helping at all. I am also in a Masters program online and I do my homework after I put the kids to bed (again, the bedtime routine is done 100% by me). My 5 month old still wakes up 2-3 times per night and I am the only one who gets up with her (she is bottle fed now so it could be either of us but my husband never gets up with her).
So I get 2-3 hours of sleep a night (I am a light sleeper and it takes me a while to fall asleep). I have never needed a lot of sleep but I still really resent my H for acting like it's my "job" to do all the work around the house, get up multiple times a night, plus work full-time. I also pay the majority of the bills plus do the majority of the shopping. He won't get a shared account with me; I know he wants to protect himself in case I bolt again (although we did not share accounts last time either and I never took a dime from him in any way - I have always made more money than him and been more frugal). But it's more than that - he is spending all of his money on building a classic video game and arcade collection and doesn't want me to know how much he's putting into it. He's in debt, I don't know how much because I haven't gotten a straight story, but it's a decent amount.
So this weekend I told my H that my mom was going to give us her old refrigerator. I told him I would keep it in the garage for extra stuff since our fridge is always full. I said I didn't know how to haul it to our house. He said, why don't I go rent a trailer and go pick it up? I said ok, but it's Sunday, can you rent a trailer on Sunday? He went off for a couple of minutes then came back and said yes, he just checked and you can rent one on Sunday. So I said that sounds good but there's no place in the garage to put it - where will it go? The garage has been a major point of contention because I like things organized and want to park my car in there, but he just throws stuff in there everywhere and is a packrat. He always promises to clean and organize it but he never does (and he sternly told me not to organize it because he knows where all his stuff is right now). So he says, well I will make a place for the fridge in the garage.
So he goes outside in the garage for a little while and then comes back in and says, "There's a guy selling some arcade machines a couple of hours from here, so I was thinking that if I rent a trailer, maybe I'll go take a look at his machines just in case he has something, and then I'll get the fridge." I was like, ok, and he left around 10 in the morning. He made no contact throughout the day so around 4 I finally texted him and asked if he was still 2 hours away. He didn't respond, so this made me think he probably was still in the other state 2 hours away. I figured by the time he got back it would be dark and I didn't want to keep my mom waiting, so I just told him to cancel the plan to get the fridge. He finally responded after it was dark and I said it's too late now.
Well, I figured out the truth from my stepson, who went with him. He had already bought an arcade machine from this person 2 hours away and had just been trying to figure out a way to get it home (presumably without me knowing what he'd done) when I mentioned needing to get my mom's fridge. So he totally lied from front to back about everything. He never told me about the arcade (probably spent at least $1500 on it but I am not sure). He made up a complete fib as soon as I mentioned the fridge. I don't think he ever intended to get the fridge at all. He didn't make any space in the garage for anything, so now there's barely even room to walk in there with this gigantic arcade sitting right in the middle of the garage. It's a driving game so not only does it have the big upright cabinet but it also has a seat in front of it.
I've told him that we need to get a house with more space, like with a basement, and he can use the entire basement as an arcade, but our tiny house with 6 people living in it just can't fit stuff like that right now. But he's in so much debt right now that even if he wanted to he couldn't save any money, and I paid all the bills and all my medical care for pregnancy/delivery last year...I am just now catching up. We can't afford to move. He's filling up our house with stuff - video games and video game consoles everywhere, and he doesn't clean up after himself. Clothes on the floor, games scattered about, he leaves his dirty dishes for me to pick up and clean, etc.
I feel so much resentment toward my H that I have trouble talking to him nicely or being nice because frankly, by the time he shows up in the evening I've had 2-3 hours of craziness going on that I just can't stand him. I am so jealous that he feels entitled to stay at work and have peaceful adult time while I'm at home barely keeping it together. But the moment I say anything to him, because I'm so upset and resentful and it comes out disrespectful, he stonewalls and distances for days or even weeks and stays out even later/does even less to pay any attention at all to what's going on with me or the kids. Last week he left and stayed the night at his old house (which he still owns and won't sell, I'm sure because he thinks I'm going to leave him), which really freaked me out and made me grovel and cry and ask if he was leaving for good.
I've got problems. I know I do. I have no clue how to set or enforce boundaries without getting upset and anxious. I tend to just put up with stuff until I decide I'm done and then I'm done done. I'm under a lot of physical and emotional stress trying to raise 4 kids basically by myself, stay present at work, get schoolwork done, and pretty much never have a moment of quiet/alone time. I do struggle every single day - every single meal - with my eating disorder. I work very hard to hide this from everyone and my H is the only person I know who knows about it, but I hide it from him pretty well also and he doesn't ask. In the past I struggled with depression and I still really have no clue who I am or who I might be if I could choose. I feel pretty hopeless right now, like I'm in a cage. I love my kids and I will continue to be present for them, but I hate looking at a future with my H the way he is now, completely self-focused and inattentive, and I can't really GAL because I have no one to hand my kids off to for "me" time. At the same time, I don't want to be demanding or disrespectful or anything like that because I want to be free of that. I want to be "clean" and have standards and lines I don't cross, like not yelling. I just don't know how to do that.
I know my H has many good qualities that you can really see when he's feeling good about life and me, and I know he is probably scared of pissing me off (I have lost it a couple of times since we moved in together again - lost it over "little" things from his perspective - and by lost it I mean yelled at him). He lies to me in part because he's scared of me, I know (fwiw though his family says he has always lied about things). And I know I'm probably to blame for his distancing and becoming selfish too, because I disrespected him by yelling.
All the same, I don't know what to do. I want to leave. I'm to the point now where I can't stand to see his junk laying everywhere and I know I can't do anything about it. I can't expect anything from him - it's all on me to keep it all together. I feel completely unheard and taken advantage of.
I'd rather be single and keep it all together and not have to live in someone else's mess and deal with someone else's expectations. I'd rather have no expectations of anyone because I'm the only one there. At the same time, I do love my H and when he's emotionally present, he's a real joy to be around and I know I've hurt him a lot by leaving before and in my words. I'd really like to have better insight to understand why I feel what I feel and also how to behave around him especially so I can help him feel comfortable and open and loving.
I'm just sort of at my wits end trying to figure out how to fix myself and not be a terrible partner but also not be unhappy myself most of the time.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
BB1, that's a difficult life! Does your husband seem like he wants a divorce? Perhaps there needs to be an effort to connect with your husband on a husband-wife level. To find a way to spend some time with him one-on-one where the atmosphere is conducive to talking and listening to his side of the story. Perhaps he doesn't see how his actions affect you or doesn't realize how selfish he is. Or maybe he doesn't know how to respond to you so he lies or stays away. It seems to me that he should be smart enough to see that you need help, and should just offer to do it, but the way he's acting sounds similar to a lot of men. After all, who really wants to do all that unglamorous stuff? As long as you're there to do it, and he's not forced to do it, there may not be enough incentive for him to pitch in.
As to whether to divorce, what do you want in the long term? In ten years your kids will be able to take care of themselves more, your master's degree will be done, and life will hopefully get easier. Do you want to be with your husband then?
Also, how will divorce affect your kids' wellbeing and the family's finances? How you feel about your husband is critical and important, but they are also a big factor in the decision. I'm sure you want to do what's best for them.
I guess I'd ask why you jump straight to divorce as the most likely solution? You could always separate and work on improving yourselves. Or you could try really hard to re-connect and communicate with your husband and see if he's responsive.
There are people here like myself who'd do anything to avoid divorce. It's hard to see divorce as something that would solve your problems, but if you feel you tried everything there might be people who would encourage you to do it. On the other hand, it's great that you and your husband re-married. There must be something that brought you back together. I hope you can re-discover it!
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
So.... why did you get remarried to this guy? I'm not seeing anything in that post that would lead me to believe he's worth remarrying. Frankly it sounds like the only thing holding your marriage together is your insecurities about not having a H around, which frankly is a very unhealthy reason.
No, I don't think so. He's quiet though. Always thinking, more passive aggressive-ish, not upfront about what he thinks or plans. I think he does not want a divorce but probably has thought about it recently, since he did leave and spend the night at his old house once.
Originally Posted By: NicoleR
I guess I'd ask why you jump straight to divorce as the most likely solution?
Good question. I'm asking that myself (again I don't have a ton of insight into why I feel how I feel, which is partly why I am here - I need guidance even into myself). I think I simply find relationships painful. I feel a lot of pressure. And not just romantic relationship but all relationships. I feel the opposite of "free" - I have no desire to be "free" in the sense of just doing whatever I want, because I am the kind of person who would enjoy an evening of quiet reading or just being able to go for a run or something like that...so when I say free I really mean like, headspace free. Maybe free of demands or judgments? I'm not sure. I can only explain it as pressure. Relationships are tiring because I feel like I'm always working. The only relationship I don't feel like that in is the one with my dad. He doesn't make me feel pressured in any way or like I'm ever a problem or in his way. He and I are similar in some ways - we are both doers and believe in our own capability to take care of things so we just do it.
I feel like I can't ever ask anyone for anything. If something needs to be done, I feel the need to do it. The pain of asking someone to do something is usually more than the pain I will feel doing it. I feel enormous guilt if I ask anyone for anything, or if I leave my kids with anyone so I can go do something, again, enormous guilt that makes it not even worth it because I don't enjoy myself. I'm a manager at work and even there, I find it very hard to deal with employees who need more coaching and direction, because I have such a hard time speaking up and telling them they need to do X. I am a fairly tidy and organized person and don't like clutter. My husband is the opposite. So I am constantly cringing in our living environment and then finally snapping at him about not cleaning up his stuff. He knows I don't like his mess but doesn't think it's a big deal, and since I know he already knows how I feel, I can't keep asking him to deal with it and it is driving me crazy.
My first marriage was so bad but at that time I didn't believe in divorce and I just silently suffered (until the very end). Getting divorced and being free was just such a relief for me that I think now I am getting to the point where I just don't want to be around people anymore. So I think that's why I immediately think of leaving and getting a divorce. Life with people is so hard. It's easier being alone. That said, I have found myself so isolated over my life that occasionally I meet people outside my small circle and I think, wow, that person is a lot like me, and it makes me think maybe I'm not so different.
But...I sought out this marriage because I do like and love my husband, and simultaneously have something deeply wrong with me that makes me prefer to be in a relationship even if I'm suffering in various ways than just being alone. I want to figure out why that is. I feel such a deep sense of duty to other people and to living a productive life.
I've also had 6 miscarriages over the years, between ages 20 and 30, and growing up as an only child I really wanted to have a larger family so my kids would have "people". I pretty much only ever saw my parents growing up. I hardly ever saw extended family and we moved a few times to different states, so my attachment bonds to other people are minimal and these days, it would be so nice to have a sibling I could call to talk to. So, another big reason why I got married is because I wanted kids. Not a good reason - totally get that.
The irony about that is I have a hard time being a good parent because I let my kids walk all over me. I feel like I'm being mean if I discipline them. I have been working on this and have been able to successfully set better boundaries lately, but it's really tough and I am constantly second-guessing myself. I hate that I am not giving my kids the discipline they need to grow up and be successful. My H is very cold and neglectful with our older kids (his son is 14 and my daughter is 10), and I'm very concerned especially about the 14 year old's ability to be successful as an adult (he has Aspergers), so this weighs heavily on my mind all the time. I can't help but think that my husband pays even less attention to his son now that we all live together than he did before when it was just the two of them living in his house. So part of this is also how do I do what's best for the kids without disrespecting my H? How do I become a better parent as well as W?
So.... why did you get remarried to this guy? I'm not seeing anything in that post that would lead me to believe he's worth remarrying. Frankly it sounds like the only thing holding your marriage together is your insecurities about not having a H around, which frankly is a very unhealthy reason.
Yes, it is a very unhealthy reason. I don't know why I have this irrational need.
So, my H has never been a bubbly, warm, open, caring person. He never asks me sincerely how I am or what I want. He typically thinks of himself over others, and I know this, and I don't think it makes him terrible or evil or anything like that. Although I have had more than 1 person question why I am with him because he comes off so cold and apparently I do not. He's fun to be around as long as you're not putting any pressure on him. He's playful. But occasionally what comes off to others as a kind of coldness turns into full-blown arctic and he just wraps himself up with some obsession like a cocoon. This is when it really gets bad for me, because I see lying and hiding going on and it freaks me out, and if I ask him about it he can't open up and I get frustrated on top of already being frustrated at his lack of interest in anything but himself.
Here's the thing though. I recognize I am broken in some serious ways. I want to fix myself. I have made several steps forward over the last couple of years in coming out of some fog I was in, but I still don't feel like I really know my own self or my own feelings. I don't know if it's normal to feel so much resentment like I do. I don't know how to handle that resentment and not just want to walk away or lose it and yell at H. I don't know why I take on so much responsibility and don't expect much from him. I can't even tell if he's just using me and manipulating or if he really does love me and is just messed up too.
One specific thing I would like advice on. In my first post I mentioned that my H was going to come get the fridge from my mom's house, but I finally told him not to because it was too late.
Well, that evening I was so frustrated with H that I just stayed at my mom's house with my 3 girls and didn't go back to our house. I went to work the next day and then went back to my mom's house again. I did not speak to my H and he did not speak to me since the last time we talked about getting the fridge.
I stayed at my mom's for 2 reasons: 1, because I want H to know I'm not happy he lied to me about this arcade, spent all this money and now has stuck it in the garage with all the rest of his clutter. 2, because I don't know how to talk to him and just tell him how I feel, and even if I tell him how I feel, I know it won't do any good.
I recognize staying at my mom's house for reason 1 is probably manipulative. I don't know. It's a form of silent treatment or punishment, which has to be manipulative. He gives me the silent treatment all the time and I know for darn sure I take it as a punishment. I always - always - wind up apologizing to him just to get the silent treatment over with (I always find something I can genuinely apologize for and do it genuinely, even if I feel like he needs to apologize also, which he doesn't do). My mom used to do the same thing to me growing up and I just can't handle it. I cave, apologize, feel good about myself for getting whatever guilt I had off my chest, but also bitter a little bit for caving because whatever I did didn't deserve such punishment as total silence. Why is the silent treatment so painful for me? I would like to know that. He doesn't seem bothered by the silent treatment at all. He may rather like it, lol.
So I am going home tonight and I have to do something. I have to talk to him somehow about how I feel about him lying to me. I have a ton of other stuff I want to talk about (like the garage) but I probably should steer clear of that right now. What I need help with specifically is:
- how do I approach this conversation without being bristly and cold? what do I actually say? how do I keep it very, very short? - do I need to validate him somehow since he obviously felt the need to hide all of these activities? validate his feelings of fear?
Am I looking at this all wrong? Do I have good reason to be upset or am I just ball-busting and trying to control? Would like all advice I can get.
So.... why did you get remarried to this guy? I'm not seeing anything in that post that would lead me to believe he's worth remarrying. Frankly it sounds like the only thing holding your marriage together is your insecurities about not having a H around, which frankly is a very unhealthy reason.
One more thing on this. While we were married the first time, my H was just really lying and hiding a lot. He was looking at porn a lot and being very secretive about his devices so I could not snoop on him (which I had been, which is how I discovered a lot of his lying). He had gotten laid off from his job and was sort of piddling around the house for several months not really looking for a new job. I didn't have as much compassion or empathy as I should have during this time because his behavior was just so "not right" to me (with not looking for a job, not doing anything around the house like chores while he was home all day, looking at porn after I left for work in the morning). I know now he was depressed and just not processing well at the time. He's not really the type of guy to not work - he likes going to work and I'm pretty sure his job defines him. He had really spiraled down into one of his "cocoon-like" states and eventually I just didn't feel like I could take it anymore. That's when I left.
He got a new job around the same time. I started seeing him at church and he seemed to be turning things for good. He seemed genuinely humbled and sorry for his behavior, seemed more open, started volunteering at church. I liked what I saw. He seemed warmer than ever before. We started dating again. He still had hiding tendencies - for instance, and this is a big one, he never invited me to his house. I had my own house and he just always came to mine. I didn't think much of this because I just figured his house was a little messy and I didn't want to be there anyway (he shared the house with his ex previously and I just never felt that comfy there - I had wanted us to get our own house when we got married instead of move into his, and this was one of our issues we had).
Little did I know though his depression or whatever it was had turned into some full-blown coping mechanism in the form of buying and accumulating stuff. I discovered this one time after we got remarried when I went to his house to bring him something and he just stood in the doorway and didn't want me to see inside (we remarried but stayed in separate houses for a while). He later let me in and stuff was just everywhere. You could barely walk - all the floor space was covered with stuff. In his bathroom, you could see green mildew actually growing in a puddle of water in a corner by the bathtub. He wasn't cleaning up at all. He was spending all of his time outside of work and church just buying and accumulating things, never getting rid of anything.
Another question. I struggle to understand the difference between needs I have and when I am being controlling.
For example, it bothers me greatly to have a house that is extremely cluttered. This does not bother my H, and it often leads to arguments. I bottle up my frustrations and then spew them out. I cannot handle this like this anymore. I need to know - what boundary can I legitimately set for myself, since we live together currently, and actually be able to enforce, around this area of clutter/cleanliness?
