Living in the Present, only Looking Forward

[Vanilla]

I always thought there was stuff like signals and flirting IRL.

Is there anyway to get lessons on it?

What I want to know is how waywards get OP galore, dates, OLD and knicker drops, when some awesome LBS get zilch or next to zilch.

I rejoice when I hear about great couples getting together. It fills my heart with joy to know it happens.

Ginger is gorgeous, sexy, lively, an absolute stunning fabulous lady. And here lies the rub, those who are fabulous catches in every way deserve the very best. And that's a rare commodity.

So my lovely lads, trio all, I am as sure as I can be that a fabulous partner is waiting for each of you. And you know that you will only need one (each), so don't be greedy,.....

You are fishing for .000001% of the pool. That means kissing a lot of frogs and avoiding the Toads.

V

[Coconut]

The next time I meet a woman that doesn't resemble her pictures, She's buying me drinks until she does...

Ok, so a little update on this ongoing saga I call life. Witty and I had been communicating and I knew that I was building, actually we were building, a fantasy person in our minds because we communicated so well, both playing of each others sarcasm and wit; so I told her we need to meet IRL, I didn't want to create a fantasy person that could never be lived up to. So we met Friday night, like I said I had seen pics of her on facebook, we aren't friends on FB so I could only see a few profile pics, plus a few pics that she text me, and she looked very attractive in them all.

We had decided to meet at a park near her house that is between a lake and main street, it has a gazebo and would allow us a quite place to chat. I got there first and there was no one else at the park, so I waited for her. When she got there, I didn't recognize her at all, if it wasn't for the fact that there was no one else utilizing the park, I wouldn't of even considered that it was her.

I understand wanting to use pics of you that are the most flattering, but I had no idea the "changes" that snapchat pics made other than adding flowers, halo's, etc. I'm not trying to be mean, but I just feel like if your going to share pics with someone you've never met, they should at least resemble you a little.

I had reiterated to her before we met that I also did not want anything more than friends with her, that I did not want to be involved with someone who is married. I was however hoping that when we met I would have some physical attraction to her because it makes hanging out a little more fun.

So we talked for awhile, it was not fluid at all, for me it was very awkward because I had a hard time getting past how different she looked from her pics and what I had imagined in my head. During our talk, she opened up about her life, I mean poor woman has had a tough life, child hood abuse, phy. abuse by her first husband, cheated on by her recent ex, a child with some psychological issues, etc. I pretty much clamed up, I was uncomfortable and ended up leaving after about an hour.

So after I left, I was struggling. I think as a good guy, I naturally want to rescue, and while I can recognize that and choose not to go down that path, I had a difficult time figuring out how to handle everything because I didn't / don't want to be mean either. I'm still struggling on how I will move forward, to be honest I feel a little deceived; so since Friday our communication has been limited to a few texts here and there.

I didn't do much Saturday due to it being really cold and a little rainy (and I was a little down about my meet Fri. night), so I did some stuff around the house to start getting ready to move in April (my lease ends April 30), and did a lot of binge watching Netflix.

Sunday was again cold and rainy, and started out much like Saturday was, but I didn't want to waste an entire weekend so I went onto Meetup to see if there were any super bowl get togethers. Turns out that a group I've been trying to meet up with (board and card game playing) was getting together to play some games and watch the football game. So I RSVP'd, went to the store for supplies and made some meatballs to bring with me.

When I drove up to the house it was at, I was pretty anxious, but I didn't allow myself to chicken out and went in. There were about 20 people there who all obviously knew each other well, and I am not going to lie, I was pretty freaking anxious. I just tried to settle down as best as I could, they were all friendly and I started to feel comfortable pretty quickly.

A few of us soon started playing a couple of games, they were helping me learn the games (which I picked up pretty quick)and then we just started playing. Laughing, joking, debating, it was just awesome... For the first time in a year, I was having fun adult interaction in my new hometown.

It didn't take long to realize that this is what I'm missing in my life, not a relationship.

[focus22]

Wow, this is truly fabulous!! Good going!! Sounds like a great path to carry on going along

And about your meet up with Witty, from the outside, for someone to tell you all that stuff about themselves straight away...well, I think that would set alarm bells ringing for me.

The guy I date for a bit in 2016 (the one that was the heavy drinker), the first time I met him, he told me pretty much straight away about his wife having died a number of years previously. He was actually wearing his wedding ring on the third finger of the right hand, and said to me something along the lines of 'I guess you're wondering about this', pointing to the ring.

To be honest, I had noticed, but I would never in a million years have asked about it. And not the second or third time we had met either.

Anyway since he had brought it up I asked if she'd been ill, and he said 'sort of'. I understood straight away that it meant that she'd died by suicide after some sort of mental illness.

At the time, I took it all to mean that here was someone who was OK with talking about difficult things/experiences/feelings in life. Especially seeing as my XH had stonewalled me for years and never really talked about his feelings.

Now I think it felt like there was an element of manipulation on his part: a big, tall, strapping man the poor victim of circumstance.

Yes, he was in a way the victim of circumstance. But he didn't have to tell me all of that stuff the first time we met, after not that long either.

I think I'm much more comfortable when someone reveals themselves slowly now. I don't need to know everything straight away. And I can read between the lines...get to our age, and obviously someone has lived a bit of life, ya know?

[Holding]

C'Nut, I've never been good at rejecting and ending things (a common NGS trait). But maybe just tell Witty you don't think y'all are a good match. If she accepts that, then good. If she pushes for more, be honest and explain that you felt deceived by her pictures. Trying to justify it as "I'm not interested in a R with someone who is M'd" is dishonest, because despite saying that, I think the both of you wanted a little more.

A few of us soon started playing a couple of games, they were helping me learn the games (which I picked up pretty quick)and then we just started playing. Laughing, joking, debating, it was just awesome... For the first time in a year, I was having fun adult interaction in my new hometown.

It didn't take long to realize that this is what I'm missing in my life, not a relationship.

Two big thumbs up!

[DonH]

I'm going to just drop the whole getting rejected "just in case I/you might have been serious" thing. Yes, this is sarcasm. However I still don't think we are on the same page about the people from here dating or getting married piece. Hopefully this clears it up. Ginger, when you said last week, and now again reiterated, that people here have gotten married, had kids, etc. you don't mean they met here - right? See I thought that's what you meant last week - like people like you and doodler have met each other here, gotten together and later married and had kids. You just meant someone like doodler met someone who has never been on these boards and gotten married. Do I have that correct now? If not, who from DB met someone else from DB and had any kind of LTR? Ive never heard of that and I've been here since 2005! Gawd that sounds pathetic - though I did take a break for 6 or 7 years in that span.

Coconut, I was about to try to help you gain some clarity but at the end it looks like you did just that all on your own! I think what happened with you is great insight, not only for you but many of us. Where to start...

- You singed up for OLD, got introduced to someone, quickly backed down and deleted your profile.

- You created a new profile and again started talking with someone but never met.

- You then gave up talking to her because you really were interested in this new girl and didn't want to chat with two women once - for some reason.

- You were really into this new girl but still only wanted a friend. At the same time, You only want a friend but you want a hot friend that you can be sexually attracted to.

Unless I got some details wrong here, do you see the craziness? And it really just comes down to the fact that you're not ready to date.

BUT THEN... You figured that out all on your own. It's called GAL. That's really what you've wanted and guess what, a GF may happen because of it. And I have to give you huge props for this as I'd really have a hard time doing what you did Sunday. I really would, even though I know it's what I need. I've had so many friends over the years but things change, my D, no longer a firefighter/paramedic - which odd as it may sound was a huge social circle. No longer working full time. I need more friends, I know this. I could walk in that house. I could do that, but meeting amd interacting is a crapshoot. If I'd really hit it off with some, great but honestly that's a 20% chance at best for me.

But this is not about me and belongs on my own thread.

Before you do any more OLD I really think you need to decide what you want. Maybe you have and GAL is it. The fact that you wanted physical attraction with someone you don't want an R with tells me you want an R but are afraid of it - or are just not ready. You want the fantasy or perhaps the feelings of attraction but not have to act on it. You want to feel like you are on a date but not have the pressure of being on a date. That's why you told her again before meeting that you just wanted a friend. It was your safe zone.

How am I doing on all this? Am I warm or full of shlt? Huge props for your meet up outing. And one more thing, these apps these days can be pretty amazing in making someone look pretty amazing. Skills I had to hone in Photoshop and spending hours "airbrushing" photos are now often a filter click away. Not sure if that's cheating in the same sense as putting up 15 year old photos but just know it happens. Never, ever make any decisions (or stop chatting with someone else) until you at least meet in person. Who knows, that other lady may have been a great match.

What I really wonder is how many others doing OLD are just like coconut and nit yet sure of what they want? There is absolutely nothing wrong with being where he us, but it dies make it harder to OLD.

[Vanilla]

DonH

Yes to your question. Courses are one place that LBS meet. On one course I attended there were a few DBers.

V

[Coconut]

Hmm, DonH, you nailed it, I wanted it without being pressured into it. I won't say I'm not ready to date, but I am realizing I'm not ready to put myself out there to really find it.

As for socializing and interacting, it comes pretty easy, I have a pretty low self esteem, but I can not deny that people are drawn to me. I am not extroverted, but in many scenarios, I find myself being the alpha male in the room.

If I really had to break it down, my mom raised me to be "extra respectful" of women (due to her difficult childhood with her brothers), and I think it has minimized the amount of alpha I'm willing to project to woman...

But no matter, your post absolutely nailed it.

[Ginger1]

First, I want to say, thank you V. Nobody has said such sweet things to me in a really long time. And I believe you have many of those fabulous qualities likewise.

Coconut, it makes no sense to me why someone would use all these filters and put their best pictures forward when they don't look like that IRL. I would be so hurt if someone was let down by how I REALLY looked. So I make a note to put real pictures on my dating profile. One with straight hair, one with curly, full body, make up and no make up. Also one with me enjoying real life stuff, like me waiting a turkey leg and kissing a stuffed bacon while drinking beer. A guy I am talking to now said the picture of me without the makeup (he didn't even realize it) was my best picture.

I have wanted to join up a meet-up froup for board games, because I love them and I thought it would be a good way to meet new people. It is very brave to walk into a room of 20 people you don't know. And see, you had a great time and realized what you REALLY needed.

With your personality traits, which seem similar to mine ( except I am not an alpha male) you will probably do great meeting people organically, in a setting like you were in. I have my best success in those settings and I always felt more confident because I was simply being myself, and someone was attracted to that. My last BF I met at a group fitness gym where we had class together 5 nights a week.

I think dating might find you, keep your eyes open.

[Coconut]

My history of dating is that I go all in too fast, something that I will be trying to temper in any future relationships, and wanted to post something I read while going through an old thread so I can refer back to it in the future.

I'm not going to quote it so it will be complete, it was written by tl2:



Some thoughts on post-D dating:

So I've been dating a very nice person for 7 months now. We occasionally get together with her friends and mine who are either divorced or never married. Interestingly, we seem to listen to them complain a good bit of the time about their dating pitfalls.

Having had several of these conversations now with various people in the 40s, I've made a few observations:

-- everyone who invested too much before really getting to know someone ended up with a difficult breakup

-- everyone who didn't maintain discipline regarding their personal space and balancing dating with the rest of their lives ended up in a difficult situation they're trying to resolve now, or in a difficult breakup.

-- people who dating clearly incompatible people got burned; a friend of mine who is not religious at all and who was married/divorced in his early 20s (he's 49 now) without kids dated a woman 14 years younger for two years who was very religious and wanted kids.

-- people dating where either or both had wildly inflated expectations early on ended up sorely disappointed; the 2 I talked to the most both communicated the same old magical, fairy tale thinking that I don't think ever works. I've even heard from people who had been through painful divorces and marital counseling that was fairly consistent with db principles.

Since my gf and I always seem happy and have fun with no drama, etc., I was asked "how I knew she was the 'right' woman for me". Haha. My responses:

-- I don't know that at all. That's not even a question I care about answering. My goal is to hang out and have fun with someone nice who I enjoy being with. End of story.

-- It makes no sense to start talking about a future with each other until you really start getting to know each other. I don't care what anyone says, that takes a good amount of time. Not something you can know about someone else in 3 months. So why worry about it? If one or both are looking to lock the other down quickly, that's probably a bad sign. Of neediness, control issues, or more.

-- Things move 'fast' because we choose to move fast and that seems to generally be driven by unhealthy thinking (again, IMO). They don't have to. We're grown ups and should act like it. The faster people move, and the earlier they do it, the more that seems to take on a snowball effect, so we develop attachments and a false sense of intimacy too damn soon...then after 6 months or so start getting a sense of what it's like to really be with this other person and how they make decisions.

What has been working for me (and, again, everyone's different and everyone's mileage may vary):

- GF and I see each other almost every weekend for a day or two. While we occasionally have a date during the week, or on a special occasion, we largely keep the work week for work and kids and friends.

- We talk a couple times during the week and occasionally text, especially if one of us has a challenge with something with kids or work that we want to talk about (that's usually her). For the most part, we save convos for when we see each other.

- We both agreed that our focus was going to be on hanging out and having fun, and thereby get to know each other. There has been no kind of "if you're not going to pursue a long-term serious relationship then we don't need to date" by either of us. Frankly, if I heard that from someone I hadn't known for a year or so, I'd be showing myself the door.

- We've taken 2 or 3 weekend trips together. Again...fun!

So it's been great. However, nothing's perfect and there have been some challenges:

1. She's been divorced a lot longer than I have and is a bit more ready to 'settle down' again should the right opportunity arise. I've made it very clear that while I'm not opposed to that, I'm also not interested in getting too serious in the short-term. It's not a huge issue at the moment, but she's made it clear that she is leaning toward being 'all-in' even though she respects my line on that.

2. I disagree with how she handles her kids on some things. Mine are grown and out of the house so are not as much of an issue. Sometimes when she's here my kids come over and we hang out a little; same when I am at her place. She has one in college and one in high school, and the differences in how we approach dealing with kids' issues highlight our differences in personality and decision-making on some things. It's unclear how best to negotiate that with each other...yet another good reason for taking it slow.

3. Both for my work and for myself, I need a lot of quiet, alone time. I enjoy social interaction but don't need it daily like she does. After a day alone with nothing going on, she gets stir crazy and because of my nature, I often need the opposite at the same time. As a result, I've encouraged her to continue spending more time with friends and family for the time being and, naturally, being a bit more emotional than me she sometimes feels slighted. So I reassure her at times and sometimes make an unexpected mid-week date, or agree to one if she asks; other times, she respects my need for more space. Again, whether this ends up being a deal-breaker or not, who knows.

So we talk things out the best we can and the communication is good even though we don't always see eye to eye. We continue to enjoy our time to together and, so far, neither of us is interested in ending that. While we have had some discussions that have been difficult because of our different natures, the dynamic is good with no drama or serious fighting.

Having not dated for so long because I was married (yes, some of us don't date while we're married...shocking I know), it's been interesting. I've worked very hard to not only try and grow past some of the bad habits and unfruitful behaviors I developed during the latter years of my marriage, but to apply some of those new ways of thinking to this new, wacky dating life.

At times I've been tempted by various negative thoughts or unfruitful ones that often cause us to lose focus/balance and seek to solve problems by covering them or soothing ourselves with a relationship: fear of being alone forever; the almost Pavlovian response many of us experience for the gratification you get when someone throws plenty of positive attention at you...especially after years of having little or none; to be dishonest with yourself or with someone else in order to make things simpler, allow the other to believe something incorrect, etc.; and to put pressure on someone else to conform to our expectations, soothe our insecurities, or generally start relying on someone else to make us 'happy'.

I'm not saying I'm doing it right or have all the answers. Just sharing my post-D dating experience and happily reporting that overall it's been positive by continuing to apply the basic principles of individual strength and independence I learned initially from reading the DB literature. Avoiding unhealthy attachments; having a life; balancing dating and such with other priorities and, etc., really do work, and aren't all that difficult to apply.

The difficulties always seem to involve our not being honest with ourselves or willing to identify and change unhealthy behaviors. That requires constant vigilance. But again...who knew life could be so enjoyable after all those bad years!

[Coconut]

As for me, I text'd with witty a few times on Sunday during the super bowl, her and her son are big Eagles fans, but the texts were strictly limited to the game. I didn't reach out yesterday, nor did she, and I have really been giving a lot of thought to what I want and how I feel.

She sent me a text this morning saying she guesses I don't want to talk to her anymore, that it was fine, and she hopes that I either found or find whatever it is that I'm looking for, and ended with Take Care. I replied to her and said that I would not disappear without saying something, but that I've been trying to figure out how I felt/feel, and I'd reach out to her tonight.

I'm still really confused, and I think that a big part of that confusion might be my fear of hurting her. On one hand, I would like to have a friend in town that I could go out with and have adult interaction, but on the other hand I had built her up in my mind so much that I don't look forward to hanging out with the real her, I felt very uncomfortable the whole time we were hanging out that night and I don't know if that uncomfortableness will go away. I don't want to hang out if I'm not comfortable and enjoying myself, but I also don't want to be selfish and hurt her by ending it.... grrr

gods honest truth, I feel like an azz for letting things go like they did, but just got caught up in the rush of it all (hence my previous post)..

Holding is right, we both said we wouldn't date, but I think we both were hoping for mutual attraction, maybe some sexual tension.

btw DonH, you can add another closed OLD account to your list, lol.