“More recently, she has been much much much more civil in her interactions with me and kids, and certainly she is much more loving with the kids now than she has been since they were little. As to consideration towards me? Hmmmm. She does not any longer offer any signs of disrespect towards me, but, well... I will say that in terms of day-to-day consideration and politeness and demeanor she gives me as much as coworkers/friends.”
That's good......and it is very important, IMHO. If the couple is in piecing, and she can't even show as much consideration to her H as she would give to a stranger.....then, they are going to have a very long, difficult piecing period. Sometimes it's easier to show strangers consideration, than our spouse.....b/c we don't know strangers and don't have a R with them. Co-workers and neighbors, well, we often feel we "have" to show a certain level of professionalism at work, and maybe a little friendliness with a neighbor b/c they live by us? Anyway, it's a start. The actions have to come first, then the feelings will follow. Most times, I am trying to tell a newcomer not to confuse friendliness, polite consideration, etc., to mean the same as "love". On the other hand, if there has been reconciliation, then friendliness and polite consideration is....nice. It is much better than coldness, or hatefulness....but I suppose if that was the case, it wouldn't be much of reconciliation, would it? Perhaps some people confuse a true reconciliation with the fact the wayward spouse just chose to end their A and not leave the M. That's pretty much what I did at first. How could I truly be reconciled when I was so resentful toward him? I had to work on myself to get close to emotional reconciliation. I don't think I was truly reconciled in every way until the night I went to him with a broken heart for what I had done, and asked if he could forgive me. Have I confused you yet? If not, stick around.
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“However, in terms of intimacy/touch, she still holds back more. I have even remarked on this to her on a couple of occasions-- Once way back in June (before this current reconcilliation phase started) and she was still avoiding any touch by me and seemed borderline repulsed by it, she could have a stranger come up and put his hand on her shoulder/back and she'd be just fine with this”
Yeah....repulsed is a pretty accurate word to describe the WW's feelings for her H. The doctor she gave a full frontal, warm hug at the Christmas party? Well, she wasn't going home with him. She could give him that hug (whether or not it was appropriate)and leave it at that. The doctor wasn't going to make the moves on her, like H's start making when they want to have sex (which is often not romantic). At least, we'll give the Doc the benefit of doubt, just to make a point of how messed up a WW's mindset can be. A woman could flirt, and even be turned on by a M co-worker at a Christmas party, and then go home with her H and think nothing of being cold as ice. So......lots of inner work needed for her. One step at a time. The healing in the intimacy (if I am saying this correctly) will probably be the last issue to fully accomplish.....if that was the issue behind her waywardness. However, if there was something deeper, or you have no clue.....or maybe she doesn't either, the therapist will have to get her to dig it out before she can receive healing. FWIW, there is power in prayer. ((hugs)
Speaking of prayer, reminds me that she has a spiritual problem. Which, of course, goes hand in hand with waywardness. She can't have much spiritual fellowship with God, if she is rebelling against one of His divine institutions, such as M. Plus, there may be something more that she's never resolved......with God. Once she's straight with Him, her soul will feel at peace and she will be in a better place to deal with whatever is needed.
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“She probably calls me two to three times as much as i dial her up, although the text imbalance is probably equally unbalanced the other way. She never says "Im just thinking of you" and she often has a pretext-- usually something about the kids-- but she has been calling me regularly two to three times during the workday ever since July/August.”
I'm guessing that was before the A began, calling you during the work day was usual behavior for her? Don't fret over her not actually saying she was just thinking of you. I think I stated those words to you, when questioning some things she might do to show interest, or whatever. However, for her to actually say those words to you could possibly indicate feelings of love, romance, & intimacy that she's not quite ready to relay verbally. Some women who are not ready for intimacy, will avoid saying something that gives her H the idea she is thinking of having sex. It's kind of her way of saying, "Don't get the wrong idea, or get your hopes up, just b/c I'm calling three times today". So, she feels she has to have some valid excuse to call, like something about the boys, etc. Women are infamous game players.......even with themselves. I said all of that to just repeat that her daily actions toward you, are better than some WW's who are a year coming back from an A. It is usually those W’s who haven’t really committed all the way in their hearts. There is a difference in true commitment and in feeling it's the end of hoping for a happier life. Another part to it is those W's have H’s who aren’t requiring more effort b/c he is settling for her crumbs and/or he's afraid of scaring her off. My heart goes out to LBH’s b/c they really are in a delicate spot. I think it's more difficult for the H of a WW, than a W to a WH.....but that's JMHO.
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“Hard to say she often deliberately reaches out to touch me with her hands. Once or twice, here and there, every couple of days, but she has plenty of opportunities where it would be natural where she does not. OTOH, she seems more willing WRT feet/legs. Maybe its just subconscious and she doesn't notice it as much, but she will often have her legs or feet pressed against mine when we are out, or even when we are in bed if we are not cuddled up a little closer.”
In case anyone wonders, you were asking about how the picture would look, and these were things I was trying to describe. Since we had approached this subject a while back, you posted about not really engaging with non-sexual touching......and the reason I found your quote above interesting was when you said she had plenty of opportunities where it would be natural but she doesn't reach out to touch you. This period you both are going through (if she has not back slid, and she is being genuine) is kind of like a game of chicken. You both hold back, waiting on the other one to make the first move. You both have made the simple act of touching each other seem as awkward as having sex in the town square in broad daylight. In other words, you are watching her like a hawk. At least, in my mind's eye it appears as such. Maybe part of that is b/c I told you not to rush her and to not get all feely-touchy b/c it would put too much pressure on her at first. In fact, I'm pretty sure I talked about not initiating any sexual type of touching. I usually give that advice b/c men want to seal the deal by having sex, and that causes many of them to push to have sex too soon. But like a lot of other H's, you seemed to have become so aware of every little move (or lack thereof) and it's killing every possibility to just act normally.
If she was reaching out to touch you every few days, and she never saw you initiate a simple non-sexual touch, where you touched her with your hands.......then all sort of thoughts could be running through her head. You said she is dealing with some weight gain, and it really bothers her. Yes, you think she is beautiful.....but what are you showing her, if you can't do the most basic little touches? Don't get me wrong, Jim. I'm not beating you up. This is my way of trying to point things out and explain the woman's viewpoint. When a couple is genuinely working on their MR, and if she is no longer showing waywardness (as far as you can tell), then that places you in a somewhat different position than when you were the LBH. Do you see what I mean? As a LBH who has a WW that is unwilling to work to save their MR, there are certain things you don't do.......until she agrees to work on the MR. Once she does agree, and you can see some progress (albeit, even a little), you need to gradually move closer toward her. As long as she is putting forth just a little effort of some kind, then you show her your effort, as well.
I am hesitant to even say that ^^^^, b/c someone out there will misunderstand how I mean it and start yelling to not pursue her. You never pursue a wayward! But if she's not showing signs of waywardness, and she has said that she is committed to working on the MR......then as a man, you need to move toward her. What would she say she sees in your working or your efforts on the MR? Although she was the one who cheated, and she does carry the burden of earning back your trust, if she feels a lack of team effort in the area of trying to get the MR on better level, I worry that she will stop trying at all. As long as she is responding positively toward your actions, then that's what you do when you both are actively working on the MR together. You did not cheat, but you did contribute to the breakdown of the relationship, and both of you have plenty of work to do.
I touched on this in the last post of how you are still being the first one to end the phone conversation. I'm glad you brought it up, b/c this is a good example of what I'm talking about. When the WW is having an A, or she is being disrespectful in other ways, she won't agree to work on the MR, etc........you start detaching, stepping back and giving her a lot of space, GAL, focusing on you and your kids instead of her, etc., etc. Right? Okay, so if she ends the A and all her overt wayward behavior toward you and the M, and she's being respectful toward you, and she has agreed to do whatever you've asked in order to feel safe in a R with her, and she is showing progress in the work....then you are in "piecing".
The determining line about being in piecing or in limbo is the answer to the following question. ”Did she just end her contact with OM, and is currently under the same roof with her H, ………or did she show true remorse & humility, and is cooperating in actively working to do whatever her H and MR needs to heal and be happy again?” Perhaps that question sounds over simplified. As I said, it took me nearly two years to feel like I was anywhere ready to put forth the kind of effort that a LBH wants to see from his W. For one reason, my false pride held me back. Another reason was the fact it took me so freak'in long to get through the withdrawals, and the reason (I later realized) was the fact I had not totally let go of the fantasy in my head. I daydreamed of “what could have been” with some other man. Once I truly let go of the fantasy, and got my heart right with God, then the remorse hit me for real. After I sincerely apologized to my H, then I could feel a difference in my emotional energy. I’m not saying it takes everyone that long. The more problems that existed in the MR, and the more individual issues the WW has, the longer it will probably take to resolve everything. As I’ve said in the past, it is more difficult for women to categorically separate their emotions, than it is for men.
If you are piecing the M back together, then why would you act stand offish or withdrawn, as if she was still having an A? If she is not doing what you’ve asked of her, then it needs to be addressed to determine why. If there are no logical or satisfying explanations, and if she is not willing to seek professional assistance, then you should probably state new or additional boundaries. You said you had voiced only one boundary. There is no law that says you can’t state more boundaries whenever necessary. At the very least, tell her what you need to see in her, and what she needs to do to build back your trust, and if that doesn’t happen then you’ll have to ______(fill in the blank). Just don’t tell her you’ll have to think about it further, b/c in this instance, it just gives her more leeway. If not, then you may be seeing the future of your MR as it currently stands.....which is limbo.
However, if she has done what you've asked, and she is not giving you reason to doubt her b/c of suspicious behavior, then why would you not be piecing the M back together? Who is determining where you are? If I were to ask her what she has seen in you, what do you think she would say?
So, being the first one to end the phone calls is just one example. Although that is the thing to do when you are dealing with a wayward W, why would you continue if she is not showing disrespect toward you, and the two of you have agreed to work on this MR? When I ended my A, and I had straightened up my behavior toward my H......it would have been very hurtful and discouraging if he wanted to get off the phone every time I called him. (If he had been the one who called me, then of course, he would end the conversation first). You see, some of these things you were doing as a LBH with a WW, but there may be a few of your previous 180’s as a LBH, you don't carry over into piecing. At least, not when she is doing what you have asked from her, and when she is showing respect toward you. I don't think that point is brought out enough in the Newcomer forum, and unfortunately, a lot of people don't stick around long enough to find out. And like I said, being the first to end the phone call, is just an example. Maybe you can think of something else, or perhaps you have questions about some action and if you should continue with it.
Well, I accidently deleted the rest of post. Guess it's just as well, b/c I would have had to make a Part 3.
Excuse, if I repeated some places. I started out copying and pasting, and then it b/c confusing. I just hope I haven't confused anyone else.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I said all of that to just repeat that her daily actions toward you, are better than some WW's who are a year coming back from an A. It is usually those W’s who haven’t really committed all the way in their hearts. There is a difference in true commitment and in feeling it's the end of hoping for a happier life. Another part to it is those W's have H’s who aren’t requiring more effort b/c he is settling for her crumbs and/or he's afraid of scaring her off. My heart goes out to LBH’s b/c they really are in a delicate spot. I think it's more difficult for the H of a WW, than a W to a WH.....but that's JMHO. 
