How a treehouse can cost you your marriage 2

[Clyde]

Hi V,

Thanks again, your views have been very insightful and spot on as I reanalyze my sitch. When you mentioned what The G told you about being better off dead it really made me feel for you and realize how significant what you are doing just is... It can't be easy to re-live those events.

Since the last convo (the one I posted) w/ the W little happened until today. She made no mention of the sitch, was pretty cold for the most part. I was surprised to see that she did not remove her ring and that she is still sleeping in the Mstr bed w/ me, (those were the first things to stop after initial BD. She made pancakes yesterday, S6 asked why she made so many, she said because we got...(named everybody in the house excluding me). I really think she expects me to pursue as I did during initial BD. I have made no mention of it, rather gave her space to digest the sitch and see I am serious in my stance.

This a.m. kicked off close to a 5 hour convo... I will summarize as much of it was painfully repetitive... why I allowed it to go on so long, I don't know - I went against the solid advice I have received here.

W: So we need to talk, I'm nearing the deadline for my apartment.
M: Sure, I'm all ears, do you have any new thoughts about the sitch?
W: I think we jumped into this too early.
M: I agree, so now that we are here what now?
W: I kinda think I should move back to my apartment.
M: It's probably for the best.
W: I worry about the kids, they are so much better off when we are together as a family, it's better for everyone, even me and you. I was severely depressed when I was living at my apartment, I missed my kids, I missed you, I missed the times we had.
M: Sorry to hear it was so rough for you, I could see that you were not happy. I agree about it being best for everyone, and I know that is a completely viable option, I told you what I am willing to do to make that possible, you are the one saying you can not do the necessary things that are crucial for our MR.
W: I will not live in the past....blah, blah, blah......
M: do you realize the TRO is the worst thing anyone has ever done to me in my life, and then to have it done by the person I love the most, I could not fathom doing that to you.
W: Look, I can't say sorry right now, I told you why... I will promise you that will not happen again. (I did sense some sincerity in this comment). I just have a real problem w/ how and why it was brought up.... (some more of the same convo hat transpired last time)
M: Look, I hope this is not taken the wrong way, I'm not saying you have issues or anything like that, but maybe it would help if you saw an IC, you mentioned you experienced depression at the apartment, you could also bounce some of the issues we are having off the IC and get another point of view.

At this point I sensed that she was feeling that me still engaging in the convo was me pursuing as she said something to the likes of "Meanwhile I still don't feel comfortable and should probably move back to the apartment". I agreed. S6 comes out into the yard and ask for lunch. We got up to go make lunch and she made a remark of "Well that got us nowhere!"

After lunch she said asked if we should continue the convo, I said sure - lets go back outside.

M: Look at this point I am at peace w/ the sitch, its not how I wanted it to go, but here we are. I don't know what else to say and don't know that discussing it anymore is going to help, kinda feel like we are just trying to prove who is right.

She went back into how she feels sex is to much of a priority for me... a bunch more of the same convo, what was different though, was this time she blatantly tried to use sex as leverage.

W: So do you really think if we went to MC and dragged up the past that would be best for home life? Are we going to come home after the MC sesh's and be all lovey dove on one another, think its going to be a good environment for the kids.
M: I already said it is not going to be easy, but I can tell that by your current view of it that its likely not going to be effective at this point. That being said, if you wanted to go with the intention of strengthening our MR, it would do just that.
W: You realize that if we were to go that would be a big set back, do you think I'm going to want to have sex w/ you, it would probably be a good six months before that happened. Do you think I want to have sex w/ you right now - no its going to be a while, I'm starting to have those feelings again, that I do not want to be intimate w/ you after all this.
M: Really six months? Were did you come up w/ that time line? You don't think I see what is going on here, you are using sex as a method to control, were is the intimacy in that. And as long as we are talking about control, you have been very controlling over the last year, I'm not going along w/ it anymore. (I wanted to say abusive but know that would of ignited her, last year our MC said her comments/actions were abusive, she went off the handle... little more was mentioned about it for two reasons - Her reaction to the comment, and my pride. I am a big strong man, admitting that I am taking abuse does not fall in line w/ that... perhaps if I insisted on addressing it back then it would not of metastasized in to what it is today.

As I rehash todays convo I have some mixed emotions.

She admitted to being depressed "at the apartment", at the time of BD and since I have wondered if she was not battling w/ this or some other psychological/hormonal issues. I feel bad for her, I have had some minor bouts with depression and know the effects it can have. Should I be more patient, soften my stance?

Last year our MC said she has severe Daddy issues, I never mentioned this as I feared that she might someday find these post. It was the comment about the Daddy issues along w/ labeling the abuse that I feel really shut her down to the idea of MC, I echoed the comment in the heat of the moment one night, it was severely damaging to the state of our M. Anyhow, the reason I bring it up now is this:

I truly believe this woman really loves me, (yes I had thought she lost that feeling during the TRO and through out the separation - heck, she came out and said it during BD). I feel that there is some block, maybe a sense of vulnerability, something that is getting in the way, from intimacy, communication, to remorse. Obviously the TRO/remorse matter is detrimental to our MR, we have severe communication issues, she has become abusive over the past 18 months (she was NEVER like that before), all that aside for a moment... our time together since we reconciled has been terrific, I feel she is genuinely happy, its almost like she can not get enough of me during the day. She commutes 30 minutes to/from work, when she gets of work she calls me right away and we talk the entire time it takes her to get home. We kiss several times through out the day, she is very affectionate towards me, at one point in a previous post I said she was putting in effort, but I don't think it was as much effort as it is just natural. Does all this factor in? Of course it does not excuse her actions, but the way she is during the daytime along with the possible long term effects of her traumatic childhood reason enough for me to be more patient? Obviously if she refuses to get help there is little I can do for her, but she surprisingly and obviously thought she had done no wrong, that she would not be held accountable, that even if she knows of her deficits they would not be called out - but now that they are should I give her time to come to terms w/ this, to self analyze and want to truly heal?

What do you think about her stance on the TRO? Like you said she is being honest, and again, to yours and my mind set it is shocking that she thinks this could justified, and if not justified then rug swept. Now that she is in the know as to what it is going take for our MR to heal from it, should I give her time to come to honest terms w/ it? Like I said I think her response of " I promise it will not happen again" was sincere. Should I tell her something like "Look, you can stay but we are going to have address this (along w/ everything else), and if you can not see my point of view by talking to me about it or reflecting on it, then you should talk to an IC about it."

I feel like I can DB the communication issues, the intimacy issues, (MC would improve the chances of success) and obviously if those were the only issues I would not be asking her to move out. As far as the abuse goes, like you said "Now I know", and with the resources you have posted and directly lent to my sitch I can clearly recognize it, and I plan to have zero tolerance for it, and since it has not been though out/ since it is something that developed over the past few years, I'm hoping she is not to set in these ways.

I know you will give to me straight V, these are the things going through my head and this is such a huge step (demanding she move out), that my mind is going a thousand miles a minute.