Gordie #16: walking away from from MLC W

[HaWho]

In my very small experience I think whatever they are saying they need in those raw moments is what they will eventually seek. For my h, it was always his apartment and the lifestyle that came with that. He was constantly pining for an apartment. He is now thrilled and giddy that he now has his own shag pad at long last.

If she is saying she needs passion and excitement, then she will chase that until she figures out that can't last forever.

Just my own personal observation from what I read here and what my own h claims illudes him.

And yes, I agree she is just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[bttrfly]

*****NEWS FLASH***

Well, she did the two things I didn’t expect: (1) she withdrew the D complaint and (2) she dropped OM2.

Keep the divorce agreement in your bureau under your socks. I remember our mediator saying that clients of his had decided NOT to divorce, but kept their mediation agreement in their sock drawers anyway, and it worked for them.

Good: She says being D will not make her life better. Things will be worse for her and the kids. She agreed to go to therapy for her issues.

Well at least she's got enough sense left to see that!!!

Bad: She still blames me for the breakdown of our M and she has no remorse about anything. She is still angry with me.

Right. There's the rub.

Ugly: She doesn’t know how she feels about me but is willing to work on things to “see what happens”. She doesn’t want a physical R with me right now.

Oh, I would NOT say that's ugly. I would believe that to be absolute truth and KEEP YOUR EXPECTATIONS AT ZERO. She is still very uncertain about everything. Forgive me, she seems to be playing fast and loose here - there's a real power struggle and sex is the commodity. No, I don't think it ought to work that way, but again, I've not been in this situation. That could mean I'm neutral and dispensing good advice or that I'm out in left field picking dandelions and am clueless.

I told her I was surprised and happy but didn’t want to make assumptions about what this meant. I reiterated that I can’t stay M or living together if there are any other parties involved. She says she knows this as I’ve said it repeatedly.

That's the point, isn't it. You've stuck to your guns and she's suddenly dropped the divorce complaint and the man she was set to marry 4 months ago is suddenly shown the door?

Gordie, if I came to you and laid that out what would you say to me?

I also respected her wish not to sleep together at this time but that I also don’t believe in loveless, sexless M.

YOU respected HER wish not to sleep together ... that's rich. Who was it that crawled into your bed not too long ago, WHILE YOU WERE ASLEEP???? Suddenly you're respecting her wishes not to sleep with her? How did that table turn so quickly? She seems to use sex as the red herring to deflect from her bad behavior or as the weapon to get you to do what she wants you to do.

Do you see what I mean here?

Other notes:

She did not like my answer earlier this week about love being a choice and M being a commitment. She said that’s where we are so far apart. That I see M as a duty and she sees it as romance and passion.

Since when does commitment = duty?

Ok, when I was 17 or 18, young and romantic I thought of marriage as romance, passion, love - all those wonderful things. And now at 53, and still a romantic (albeit somewhat disappointed) I think of marriage as romance, passion, love, AND HARD WORK, commitment as in, there's no one else I'd rather share life's ups and downs with. DUTY isn't in there. I suspect it's not in there for you either. But it IS for her. Pay attention to that!!!

She also didn’t like that I didn’t “stand up for her” with D1.

Poor Princess. Daddy didn't take her side. Sorry that was a cheap shot, but really. She makes a mess and expects you to clean it up? No. Yes, parents need to present a united front on certain things, like curfews, allowances, behavior of the child that is and is not acceptable, house rules. NOWHERE should ANY parent be expected to back up a cheating spouse.

So what should I do now?

**I would schedule an appointment with your DB Coach, stat.

**I would contact a marital mediator, if there is one in your state and ask for a list of good marriage counselors who have a track record of success

**I would still move out. Absolutely and without question.

**I would tell her this:
-Our old marriage is dead
-If we are to be successful it will need to be a new relationship
-We each need to work on our own individual issues, separately
-We need to go to marriage counseling
-Wife, you want romance and passion, well, then let's date and see what happens.
-During this time of dating, the rules of engagement are that you will not expect her to sleep with you, BUT, you also expect that neither of you will be sleeping with nor seeing other people. That this will be an exclusive non-physical relationship where you both are going to explore what's left of your relationship and "see what happens"

Gordie, I'd like to say that this is a great and wonderful positive step but I'm not sure that it is. I'm also not sure that it isn't. I think she has a ton of work to do on her end, and it really remains to be seen if she's up to the task.

I'm sorry, friend. I'm pretty sure that's not what you wanted to hear. I don't think all hope is lost, but ... much work is left to be done here. Do not derail your plans for this. As someone pointed out, we don't know the truth of it, did OM2 dump her waffling @$$? She still sounds very young to me, and she's truly not done baking yet.

BTW, when was your scheduled move out date?

[bttrfly]

two more things:
1. she met / started with OM2 in August ... We're five months in. The dew goes off the rose after the first 3 months or so. Then work begins in any relationship. Do you see what I'm driving at? Pay attention to that.

2. I would say that while I'm pleasantly surprised that she's withdrawn the D complaint, you still plan to move out, as you think it's best for all concerned. If, after a period of dating and reflection/marriage and individual counseling, you each feel that you want to keep the marriage, you will then both discuss you moving back.

xoxoxoxo

stay strong!

#TeamGordie

[bttrfly]

one final thing: i'm sorry for the 2x4s xoxoxo {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}

[bttrfly]

I asked her that q and she responded she wants to “feel” cherished and held and supported in all of her endeavors. She wants us to be more independent of each other financially, socially, and to not feel suffocated and controlled by me and the M. She ““couldn’t hear her own voice” and now that she can she doesn’t want to lose that ever. She wants me to love her and not the role she plays in my life.

Then by all means, this is one more major reason to keep with your plans to move out, and when she gets mad and pushes back on that, I would definitely tell her that this is how you will each learn to be more independent.

xoxoxo

[job]

Gordie,

Do not waffle, stay the course. Move out as planned and allow her to work on herself. She's got a lot of issues to deal with and she won't be satisfied w/her decisions until she's had time alone to focus on them and figure things out.

You also need time to figure out what you want to do as well. If you have things in your life that you aren't happy about, then now will be the time to work on them. Whatever changes that you make, you make them for you and be happy w/those changes.

You can always start a new relationship by dating. The old marriage is dead and the only way to start a new one is by going back to the time you two met and start a new relationship.

Bttrfly has given you "golden" advice. Re-read what she has posted to you. I back her advice 100%.

[Gordie]

All and especially Butterly,

Thank you so much for the heartfelt advice. I am really struggling over what to do. I really don’t want to move out. She dropped the D and OM2 and that’s what I wanted. She has take a step forward in that she says D is not going to make her life better and taken legal action to drop it. I feel that’s what the first chapter of D B is about. D will not solve your problems. But yes, she is still far from recommiting to me and M.

I do want to speak to my d b coach.

Butterfly—almost everyone said move out but your message was the one that explained the why...I really don’t know what to do.

I am also consulting with my IRL friends and some say stay and some say go. I really don’t know what to do. I said special prayers at church today for some divine guidance.

I am also influenced by my parents. They hurt each other a lot including infidelity but they never separated or D and they eventually worked it out. That’s what I’d like to do.

And now that she’s dropped the D I really do feel like I am walking away from her and the kids by moving out and I don’t want to do that.

[OwnIt]

Gordie:

Life choices are often about perspective. You have painted it as you walking out on her, or you separating or splitting up the family. It doesn't have to be that. It can be breathing room, growing up space, and a time out.

Are you really looking at what staying means?

You have a completely unremorseful wife who thinks all of this is your fault.

She has flaunted her affair to you and her children. She took her children to associate with this man and had them stride around in clothes he bought them. My H hasn't even done that.

What will your kids think of your decision to do nothing? Will you lose the respect of the older children?

Have you thought about what happened to HaWho and her efforts with her H? She is one of the best DBers on this board, but in the end, the wild card is the MLC spouse.

Your W is too far gone right now.

If you have not done so, please go and read ParaPsy's thread on the newcomer board. I see your "nice guy" wanting to swoop in at the first sign of progress and try to wish all of this away. Your W has not had a big enough wake up. She is not coming to you with humility. She is not asking your forgiveness or that of her kids.

[Gordie]

W—

I love you. I don’t want to be D and I am encouraged that you say you don’t want to be D now either. However, right now we are unhappily M and neither of us want that. We both have raised serious issues with our R that need to be addressed. If we keep doing the same things I am afraid we won’t address them.

As you know, I have committed to an apartment in town and I am continuing with my plan to move out. I am hoping that this will give us an opportunity to build a new R and as you said “see what happens.” I would like to start dating you exclusively. We can date platonically until such time that we both want something more. I want us to rediscover one another and see how we relate to one another as people not in our roles as H and W. We can work on the romance and passion and not just fall back into old routines.

My goal in all of this is to see if we can get back to that happily M state that we both cherished in the earlier part of our M. Two summers ago you said you wanted a new M with me. I want the same.

[OwnIt]

Gordie:

I am afraid you may need to be more specifically about "I would like to start dating you exclusively." She might take this to mean you won't date others but she can.

I would instead say, "I would like us to exclusively date one another."

Other than that it is a very nice note. I know that we generally aren't supposed to write them things, especially longish things that can be pursuing, but your situation is very different.

What is the time frame on the rental? 3 mos? 6 mos? Just curious. I wouldn't mention this to her.

I think you've done a nice job of appealing to the romantic that she seems to crave, and hinting at some boundaries without beating her up over the past.