Gaslighting or selfish, naive and blind...

[ciluzen]

Time for a new thread.

Squinting at the morning sun

Thank you all for your kind words of support and perspectives. I will respond more thoroughly to individual thoughts soon. But, now...things that make you go "hmmm".

I wrote what I've experienced, but anything coming from anyone is tainted by their own view and experiences...and feelings. The truth between two people's differing stories is always somewhere in between. I know this, and I always try to remember and make sure that when I speak to others about my perceptions that I try to remember that the other person's truth may be different. What are people whispering or yelling into their ears? What are their past experiences, their little angel and devil sitting cross-legged on their shoulders shouting at them? I can't hear theirs; they can't hear mine.

XH called out of the blue after I had written my thoughts here; later in the afternoon. I immediately assumed one of the girls had called him, but I confirmed later that they hadn't.

I was cold and he asked after a bit if I was pre-occupied or studying (I was...but ruminating still and having a hard time of it). I was angry still. Very angry. He sounded like a little boy trying to figure out his mother's tone of voice; is she angry at me? Is she angry? Something else? He sounded sort of ...not cheery...maybe light? Like he wanted to help lift my mood. If he was next to me (old H) he would have given me a poke in the ribs or a quick lean and bump with his shoulder while smiling at me...are you ok, type of thing. He told me he had called because D25 had borrowed the truck and he knew and was happy for me that she was finally going to move the rest of her stuff out of the basement.

So I told him. I said, I've always been honest with you, so I'm not going to lie now." I didn't tell where my info came from, but what it was. That I keep getting stories from former friends, patients who I dont even know that recognize our (uncommon) last name, friends of friends, and even those who I am still friends with who work in or around his office. I also told him the girls had found something that pointed to a physical affair, but that was their story to tell. He was quiet for a bit, but then said...not even defensively...you've got it all wrong. He sounded sad. He hesitated, but then gave me excuses for everything. I purposefully use excuses, leaving no real judgement on his truths or lies. Although he is very intelligent, I've seen him be clueless and naive about things before. As if something was missing when he grew up that rendered his point of view on some things as very childish...or child-like. I won't go into detail on what he said, but as much as I want to be angry...god help me...given what I know and have seen of that disconnect...I heard that little boy speaking that wasn't trying to be bad, but somehow effed everything up because he was trying to do what felt right at the time but didn't have the experience, foresight, or ability to see how others might view his actions.

Yeah...I can feel the breeze from the wind-up of the approaching 2x4s.

Facts. We are divorced. We live separately. I keep hearing from others how angry/disappointed/confused they are about his actions, which matches and perpetuates my own. He expressed how he wishes they wouldn't do that to me. I explained that he always told his kids to behave by saying that people judged him based on their actions. Why would you not expect them to also judge you based on your own? You say you don't know what to tell people about your own kids, because of what they do. I told him, "tell them that one is working at a day care and the other is doing x full-time, y as a start-up business with her H, z part-time to make ends meet, and is a tatoo artist because she enjoys it. You should be proud of their work ethic, independence, strength and big hearts. Why is that so hard. Why are you so worried about how your kids appear, while you are showing the world that you SEEM to be having an inappropriate relationship with another man's wife?".

So his responses? That I didn't like 50% of him (I refuse to argue his assumption about my feelings anymore, but at least the percentage is dropping and he doesn't sound as sure, lol) He admits his decisions were to do what he wanted to do, and that he made them without thinking about me at all. That now, he wanted to have as little effect on my lfe as possible and he wanted me to have as little effect on his as possible. So...(working on confronting dysfunctional thoughts lately in school) I pointed out that HE CALLED ME. He got quiet again.He said, "do you not want me to tak to you? Would that be better?" I told him I was not in charge of his decisions.Then he told me again that he was genuinely happy that my basement would be mine, once more.

This was a very calm discussion. We talked about our daughters, he asked about a med procedure I had (yay hitting 50!), and then he complained about his staff and how they were not talking or fighting and they were having a meeting together about it. He was going to tell them he was the boss and that they should do what he says and that they should establish their pecking order from there. So, I validated his good decision to call a meeting. I asked he wanted a heads-up on their perspective. He said yes. I asked if it was true that Bubbles had started calling herself the office manager and storing her stuff in his back office and using his restroom and eating back in his office with him since the D, as I'd heard. Because if it was so, he had established a pecking order within the office that placed a part time, hourly emplyee with an intimate relationship above all of the full-time salaried employees. He reiterated that THEY should establish the order. I reiterated that HIS actions or acceptance of hers had created the problem. He finally GOT it, after stubbornly refusing to see it from any other view than his own.

He really has a hard time seeing from anyone else's point of view. He is very child-like in his need to get what he wants, despite his own actions. And yes, I tend to overthink the "why's", accept or empathize maybe too much, and give people too many chances because of it. We are both very controlling in our own ways, and get very frustrated and emotional when triggered by that which we can't control.

So, gaslighting? There are big lies...supposedly to protect his ability to selfishly do what he wanted and not hurt me. But very, very, wrong behavior. NOT what you do with someone you've vowed to love, honor, and cherish. And the implication of impropriety is very much there. I'm not blind, but clueless and selfish have been present in his behavior forever...just overcast with caring, giving, supportive and loving behavior in the past. As that wore thin as his attention turned to another, those traits became glaring...balance was lost. I believe I lost balance, as well, as my jealousy, anger, and low self esteem overshadowed my own good traits.

It could be gaslighting. It could simply be as I said above...our distractions causing our less desireable traits to take center stage in our relationship. Triangulation can do that. Pointed things aren't really stable or easy to balance.

Also, I've recently read someone on Newcomer's latest threads. She found that her H had been reading her posts. It has occurred to me a few times that my XH might have done the same (timing of calls, etc). These are my thoughts...I will not hide them. There is nothing to defend. Just a process towards understanding and working through pain. If he's reading, maybe he can get a tidbit of info that will help. If not, maybe someone else will.

I know this is long, but I like to try to help people understand what I am saying, even when I'm off-balance. I will be fine. I'm at the lower end of processing this latest series of events.