I just read Irish' s last thread. I looked back in our exchange with ex-h and i do see text book. They want us, spouse, to help them fix their mess without knowledge of the pain they caused us nor the struggles we faced because of their choices. They say they do not blame the children for not wanting to see them yet as soon as they feel rejection ( pain from our sides ), they monster and blame us all over again. They try to bait us for a response once they spewed. And follow with demand of empathy.
