Wife wont admit to affair and its driving me nuts!

[AnotherStander]

I will be telling the girls what is going on so they don't grow up believing all the nasty things you will choose to say about me. My children are going abroad to a different country for 6 weeks with now a huge group of people who will despise me for no reason whatsoever other than you decide to smear me. I've never wanted to be more vile and nasty than I do right now. I wish I could fu**ing rub it in that I had been fu**ing him or carrying on. I wish that were true so I could fu**ing hurt you.

Even if she's not having sex with the guy an affair is an affair. She is quite clearly carrying on an affair with him. Sex would just be a formality at this point. It's strange how people justify their behavior, such as having oral sex so they can say "we didn't have sex" as if oral doesn't count. Or spending intimate time with someone but saying it's not an affair because sex hasn't taken place (yet). Anyway you are right to ignore rants like this, there is nothing you could say that would placate her.

[Morbo]

Anotherstander wrote..

Even if she's not having sex with the guy an affair is an affair.

Well, 100% EA and more than likely PA. Its been going over a year.

So,no NC from both of us since yesterday.
She texted me just before she picked up girls to say to have them outside the house. Cold, unrepentant, she stayed in the car glaring at me. I hugged and kissed the girls and smiled and waved them all goodbye.
She is really trying to make ME feel like crap because she destroyed a marriage with the A but I'm still to blame for everything. LOL
I'm glad, it can keep going this way, I'll be strong.
I only feel sorry for my girls who have to witness it. I'm going to be happy and professional around W. It looks like she's NEVER going to get it. I hope she's not cooking up something bad because she f**Kin really hates me right now.

Anyway, got to go to work. Will have to repeat the same routine with W and kids twice tomorrow and same on friday, yay!!

[Surfer]

Morbo,

Vanilllas abuse threads are important. She helped me see the light. As did Sandi (and others). For this I am very grateful. There is a book called the verbally abusive relationship by Patricia Evans. Read it. It will answer some of your questions.

I had a very similar sitch with STBXW. WW, EA unconfirmed PA, met the guy (smarmy feck, butter wouldn’t melt chinless .... etc). There was an affair of course, I tracked them meeting, confronted but they only admit to that you can prove. No more. Even that they will deny. So STOP. You could only catch them in bed (you wouldn’t most likely) would it change the person you now see? How you feel about her? NO! She is no longer the person you thought she was. In my view, she will never be and probably never was. She was most likely hiding some serious character flaws until you were trapped, kids, M etc.

Drop your feelings for her. Somehow you must not give a sh!t. The only way to do this is not to think about her. Distract yourself and work on life without her. You must go NC to do this and you are not. Absolute minimal contact is essential here.

For now. You have 3 jobs only I would say.

Go NC
Become supermorbo
Become superdad

You seem to be doing really quite well on these already but stick at them.

Your WW has been gaslighting, manipulating and controlling you for years. Mine did too. They get worse and worse to the point they rage and rage and can’t stop themselves. This is usually post PA I expect. They feel trapped and you are the problem, not them. Relax, it’s not you, it is them. They never apologise and never feel anything other than correct. You can’t win an argument with someone like this. Don’t bother. If it helps, just saying I’m busy, I’ll have to go. We can speak another time etc. Then don’t. There is no point. Ever. You are supposed to be cutting those strings she has attached to your b@lls. Every time you make contact or show she is getting in your head you are
Re-attaching those strings. STOP. Just don’t get in touch at all unless it’s about the kids. Then a simple text. Short and no emotion.

Remember this person is just continually telling you lies and attempting to manipulate you. Do not believe a word.

When you close the door or put the phone down etc. You need to be able to feel nothing. Like you have just spoken to someone who dialled the wrong number. You role is prompt in each exchange and efficient. Minimum words and maximum speed to exit. Listen to her but chose where you engage - absolute
Minimum each time and never take the bait. Work out what is a question you feel you need to answer and what you think may be an invitation to argue. Don’t engage in the latter ever. If she moans about anything just stay silent or say ‘sounds tricky’ etc.

I’ll try and keep tabs on progress and chime in where I can see any similar behaviour.

Surfer.

[Surfer]

BTW.

RE: the book. I underlined only those parts that were exactly the same as our R. Not those that were similar. Similar and same would have been 90% of the book underlined. Same would be about 40% - 50% and I mean ‘exactly’ the same. Word for word stuff.

I suspect you have been heavily abused. Brainwashed, gaslighted, manipulated etc for years. You need to destabilise the power balance here. Get your balls back son!! You deserve better.

Surfer.

[Morbo]

Surfer wrote

Go NC
Become supermorbo
Become superdad

SuperMorbo lol

Thanks Surfer. All this validation and the eerily similar stories on these forums are really helping me right now. All Sandi's thread on the anger/vitriol/entitlement of a true unrepentant WW are giving me an insight into their behaviour. I know I have been abused too and am reading the abuse thread with interest.

I'll look into that book you suggested too.I'm sure none of it will be a surprise.

So, anyway, I'll keep writing updates as they happen.
Collected the girls from W this morning. She is even madder(if that is possible) and now parks 5 spaces away from me in the parking lot.
Great example for our girls. What a piece of work she truly is.

Staying NC,looking after my girls. Trying not to talk about it especially as she is mad at them for telling me that they were at his house...

Anyway, onwards and upwards...I WILL become Super Morbo!!

[TBSakaJ9]

Hang in there M her nastiness will pass. My K exchanges were pretty wierd in the beginning, I was nervous and lacking confidence. 7 months in they are much better these days and my W is much more friendly. She lost her nastiness about 2.5 months ago.

Continue dark contact only around money and kid stuff. I never look to initiate contact and I don't ask them what they did during their time spent with the W. I only know what they offer up.

[AnotherStander]

Great post from Surfer! Very on point for your particular sitch. Worth reading a few times.

Collected the girls from W this morning. She is even madder(if that is possible) and now parks 5 spaces away from me in the parking lot.
Great example for our girls. What a piece of work she truly is.

Now that there is funny, I actually chuckled out loud! You've got to love it! Reminds me of my W sleeping in our bed after BD, I've never seen someone cling to the edge of a bed like that, she was seemingly half-levitating off the edge. Anything to get as far away from me as possible. If we weren't so upset we'd probably laugh our butts off at half the stuff our WAS's do!

[Morbo]

Yeah, its starting to amuse me too, actually.

she was seemingly half-levitating off the edge.

Thats funny too, what is wrong with these people??

Yep, same with my W. Hated to touch me and kept so far away from me in the bed.
Dark days and so hurtful at the time.

Also, just emailed my siblings(I have 6) and my dad with a unembellished timeline of all the evidence that I had of W's affair over past year. I felt they needed to know it, I needed their validation(I've had plenty here on this forum). They liked my wife and got on well with her mostly. I know one sister was really sorry to take her off the family whatsapp. I think they may have thought I was exaggerating.
I even asked them to play devils advocate if they thought I was being spiteful or wrong.
I've got overwhelming support back from them, its a good feeling.
I know I'm doing the right thing. I am not spiralling.
I dont feel confused, out of control anymore. I can see a future now.
I'm a little hurt by her continued rage and denial but its getting easier.

[Vanilla]

OK

Her nastiness WILL NOT pass. If this is systemic it will increase. And possibly add more sinister anti social elements as if there aren't enough already.

A WW is different from a disordered one. Wayward is as wayward does and largely it's behaviourally driven. Awful selfish behaviour full of entitlement. This raging and abuse is very different indeed it stems from personality issues not behavioural ones. Personality issues are systemic and show a cancerous soul. There is no chance of a wake up call. These waywards like doing what they are doing, they enjoy humiliating and demeaning, their lies have a purpose to control and destroy. Destroy, reputation, spirit, resources and wellbeing -because it gives them control.

It is a step beyond wayward.

You may want to read Schermann posts.

One in twenty of the sitches (possibly more as the board may attract a higher than average selection of these) are personality issues. I think yours is one of those. These sitches DO NOT turn round. These waywards take years of therapy to develop into half decent partners. If ever.m

It is dangerous and damaging for you and your girls to be involved in this crazy loco.

Five months without ML? Long enough to determine some sexual diseases but not others. Especially Syphilis and Clamidya. Both of which will do you great damage and can be present for years as dormant. Go get tested is my thinking. The former damages the brain especially the frontal lobe and the later your capacity for sperm production if you ever want a second family. The actual process of testing should be confidential and having the tests will be very sobering.

Those of us who have been through this type of abuse can be spellbreakers. That is because there is such a thing as bonding with an abuser. It involves the sweet cycle. Being nice,loving then raging. Each sweet cycle gets sweeter and sourer as the abuser tests your tolerance for abuse. Because there is sweet and sour then there is cognitive dissonance. That means trying to reconcile the irreconcilable, how can there be sweet and sour together? Is it that this is your fault? If you had done X or y instead of z would it be different?

Once you know then you will never unknow. There is no going back.

This stuff usually ends in a grande finale event of nastiness, an attempt to resume control. You can find yourself accused of unspeakable things. For this you will have to be ready with a full history of abuse, without gaps. To show a pattern. Not just patches here and there. Recent stuff.

Keep a diary, recent files emails. Even if recording is not accepted by the court still do it as the police will often arrest at random. You are the sane one here, stay that way. KEEP SAFE AND KEEP YOUR TWO BEAUTIFUL D SAFE.

On the abuse thread the lovely Sotto put a reading list, I would add that you Google High Conflict Institute for tactics like medium chill and BIFF responses. Also consider asking any L you take on about his or her experience in high conflict divorce. Divorcing a high conflict spouse needs very specialist skills.

And cards chest close.

I recently qualified as a Freedom abuse counsellor and although I specialise in women being abused then I have now worked with a couple of L that are great at high conflict D management. This is not easy to resolve and it's much harder if the behaviour of the target (not victim) is working against you or they are not spellbroken.

Abuse is trance inducing, mesmerising, in early phases the target is 'lovebombed' or persuaded they are very loved. Once the abuse starts then it moves in sweet sour cycles, each cycle oscillatinG more and more. The sour being longer and longer. Eventually the target gets weary and withdraws. Then rage starts as the abusers seek more control.

The cycles themselves are conditioning the target to accept abuse. The main hormone involved is oxytocin which is both an alarmer and a sopherite. It's addictive and induces a hypnotic state, even the normal brain biochemistry can alter and with plasticity the brain can change its structure, brain cells can die. Mast cells wither and the whole body biochemistry and physiology can change. Illness can arise and often does with inflammatory and autoimmune illness especially being the norm.

Abusers can kill in subtle ways as well as the more obvious ones.

Extreme self care, and I mean extreme self care is needed for you and your daughters. For a very long time possibly the rest of your life.

Those are my thoughts

V

[Morbo]

Vanilla wrote

Abusers can kill in subtle ways as well as the more obvious ones.

Extreme self care, and I mean extreme self care is needed for you and your daughters. For a very long time possibly the rest of your life.

Great, I was just starting to have a good day. lol

Yeah, I can feel the burning rage, the insanity from her.
I know she wants to hurt me really badly in some way.

I'm doing everything you say. Saving texts, emails, conversations etc

I think the only way she may ever break out of this behaviour
is if there was an intervention of some sort.
Like if she sat down with both parents with the overwhelming evidence of the affair and its effects, especially on my daughters.
W really loved and respected my mom especially. I think if she was confronted by her she might crumble and reach that absolute rock bottom that Sandi talks about. Probably not at this stage though, she's too far gone.

This post is sobering, I've bought the book that Surfer suggested. Reading up on all this abuse stuff and there is no doubt in my mind that it is all about power for my wife and control over me.

I'll keep going, look after the girls and I'll see what tomorrow brings.