Separated after 9y and W says it is the end. Help!

[Subitai]

The 180 is about changing YOUR behaviors. And not for the marriage, for yourself. Detached from the marriage and the kids? Well, you can't address the marriage, but you can the kids. Emphasize no screen time with the kids (that means no phone for you when you're doing no screen time with the kids. It's hard at the park when you're watching them do the same monkey bars for the fifteenth time, but try!) when you're with them.

I try both no screen time with kids and changing my normal behavior.

Good. That's the right track.

For the GAL, don't run out dating, but definitely do new experiences, fun stuff. Try to keep it not extravagantly expensive (unless you guys are made of money) but definitely fun. In your situation, you absolutely cannot go out with other women right now. But do something besides playing video games by yourself. You need adult, human interaction and support, so you need to see your friends often, and not just in a sobbing in their arms (although that can happen, it has for me) and going on about the divorce.

I am not planning to date. In the first week I installed tinder, but suspended the account right after first requests, as I am not in the shape or mood to date. Most importantly my goal is to get her back, not to piss her off.

As for friends I have a difficult situation. I have only two male friends here in my town, not very close ones, that know about the situation with W. Rest of my old friends are spread around the globe. I have two that know the full scope with OM, and have shown incredible support, but both are far away. It was one of my issues, I thought I devoted myself to the family and was not very socially active. My W on the other hand has a huge network, as she is very active and is a beautiful woman, so there are lots of men wanting to be around. It was never an issue to me or our relationship though.

I have the same issue, my wife is very outgoing, lots of friends, I am more introverted, fewer friends. You're going to have to get out there and find some friends, then. Whatever the equivalent of Meetup or other social apps in Germany are might be very useful here. You can lean on long distance friends for the emotional support, but you still need to socialize.

I thought for a long while that being almost exclusively doing things with my family was a good thing. It's not. When things are going badly, you have no blow off valve to correct your emotional balance before re-engaging and fixing the current problem in the marriage.

Detach. This is separating the emotions from the current experience. I'm in the same boat, with the love of my life leaving me, and it's hell. But releasing from the emotion of it to look at it objectively is important. Owning and validating your contributions to the breakup is important, especially since you initiated the BD.

We had one counseling session, after the BD and there and before I took the blame on me. Yesterday I took it too, though I still mentioned that it would be great if she had openly spoken to me, as it was clear I am not initiating divorce and rather flexing muscles. To that she has only ONE answer - it does not matter now, as it is over. For me our M is over and you need to accept it.

You'll be hearing this for months before you get any traction back towards a relationship. She's been living with it for months from you, so imagine how she has felt hearing you constantly talk of divorce.

You are a WAS, not a LBHS, who has decided to try and recon after your wife has moved on, so you're threading a different kind of needle than some here. You need to show remorse and effect honest change in yourself, and hope for the best.

I never thought about it that way, but in her eyes, definitely I ended our relationship, not her. And she was too kind to tolerate it for so long.

I never talked about divorce, but I avoided doing a lot of things that needed to be done, emotionally withdrawing to protect myself and 'keep the peace', so we have some similar issues going on here, but we refer to talking about divorce as the BD, or Bomb Drop, because it is devastating to the person on the receiving end, and you have now discovered.

Admitting you made a mistake and were an idiot to her was fine, but you can't pressure her too much. It was hard for me to grasp that the marriage is BROKEN right now. It is. I spent awhile trying to find the magic words to go back to what we had, but there's no going back. Same for you. Your marriage is done. If you reconnect, it will be a new relationship, even if you never officially divorce. Your old marriage is gone, and good riddance, because you were a terrible partner (and she made bad choices in it, too.) If you recon, you will build a new relationship and will have the chance to make it far better, open, and caring. So don't eff it up if you do.

Very hard to read this, especially the terrible partner part. I still think I was not that terrible, but was blind to her needs. I do understand though, that if we get together one day, it shall be a new start.

Taking ownership of your issues is part of the process. Repeatedly saying you want a divorce and refusing to go to MC about it is a pretty terrible partner. Own it. You had many good qualities, too. So did I! But that doesn't make up for the bad stuff. 180 the bad stuff so she has a chance to remember the good stuff eventually. It will not be fast. And don't talk up the good stuff. Every time I did that with my WaW, she clammed up. It made her resentful and angry to be reminded of all the stuff we could have had if I had been a better partner. (That's how she is feeling about it.) She is pissed and hurt, and needs to heal. Minimize the ongoing damage, let her heal, and work on you so you'll be a better partner in the future, to her or to somebody else if you guys cannot reconcile.

Again, I have to say, do NOT start dating as part of your GAL as YOU are the WaS, and her doing the 180 (initiating divorce) is what knocked you on your butt and got you wanting to recon.

Her 180 probably has nothing to do with wanting to save the marriage, but is about her wanting to improve her situation where she was in a marriage with a man who repeatedly said he wanted to leave.

This is an eye opener totally makes sense. Basically this is how she says - I am living for myself and my well being enjoying every day.

Yep. She is DBing, even if she didn't read these books. She is GAL, DBing, and you have responded to it. Your hope is that she hasn't GAL'ed enough to never want you back.

You will get upset. Excuse yourself from the convo as soon as possible. Do not DROP the convo, though, you can come back to it and say you're ready to continue the conversation more calmly. You can say "Let's take 5 minutes" or "let's try again tomorrow" or something depending on how upset you're getting. But stop before you get angry.

Do. Not. Get. Angry.

Validate her feelings. Understand them as best you can. Start therapy by yourself if you can. Let her know you're starting therapy to deal with your issues, but don't phrase it as "So we can get back together."

Problem is she does not want any conversation. Yesterday we had one, initiated by me. I mentioned afterwards, that this conversation in Emergency Room was the best we had in the last two months. I think she agreed.

No R talks is not a problem right now, it is some healing space. You guys can continue to go to MC, because that becomes a 'safe space' to talk, and an easier way to get things moving, but it may not be productive. My W and I have had longer, more in depth, and good discussions about stuff than we've had in years. She still wants a D.

My recommendations for 180s :

Kids : Involved and invested dad. Support your wife to the kids. Do not ever ask them to spy/etc. Do not blame your wife or trash talk yourself to them.

Therapy : Do it. For yourself. For your future relationship with your kids, and your wife or ex wife, whatever happens. And again, for yourself.

GAL : Drop the screens, do fun things with your male friends/kids. Think about your emotional well being and your kids well being. Exercise, meditation, etc for calmness, doing things with your friends for fun and emotional fulfillment.

Communication : Polite Neighbor for sure. Keep your wife informed of stuff about the kids (updates when you have them) and be punctual and courteous.

I will start therapy asap. We did one counseling, where she said, i need time and space. In couple of months I might change the decision. Since then however, she got much harder, and yesterday, when I asked if we shall continue, she said we can, but for her it is more of a divorce counseling and definitely not a couple-counseling and it might be good for both of us
I do not know, shall we do the next session?

This is the exact situation I am in. The MC turning into Divorce Counselling is something others can comment on. Since it's not 'your' or 'her' therapist, they should be fairly neutral, and you can hash out visitation/etc with a non-partial person. I would rely on old-timers here who have more insight into how this goes. I know my current MC is totally DC now, and that's OK as we need to work things out about the kids/etc and this helps it proceed with less anger.

Avoid all R discussions unless she starts them, then do your best to let HER talk. It will be agonizing to do so. Listen to her. LISTEN. TO. HER. You don't have to agree with things you don't believe to be true, but affirm that you understand that's what she feels. This is a hard line to walk. Walk it. Practice walking it in a mirror.

After yesterdays discussion, I decided to closed any R discussions. Problem is she does not want to have any M related discussion with me. Only kids and sometimes small-talk about things/people we both know. And, as she borough up yesterday , the finance.


Question: I had a great day today, shall I text her a thank you?

Only kids, finances is fine. Sandi2 and some of the other posters will have much better ideas on if you should cut small talk/etc out of the conversation given that you're a WaS who saw the light and is now on the receiving end of a LBHS who appears ready to move on. I'm still a newbie here, but I saw a lot of my problems in yours. So I'm definitely rooting for you.