What to Do? 6

[artista]

Women like her are seldom givers. They are takers. If she doesn't learn consequences from her selfishness, she will always be a taker. In the meantime, you are going to have a life of quality and live like you want. In other words, it's going to be about you.....at least for a while. . In fact, this may be the only time in your life that you'll be able to do whatever you like doing, without worrying about what someone else thinks.

what sandi2 said here is key! that she is a taker... can you imagine living with your wife as is--meaning, she doesn't change/improve/grow--for the next 40-50 years, raising kids with her? going through life with her as she is now? you are doing the work necessary for a better life for yourself--with or without WW...

[Holding]

Chris, how was your weekend? Any crazies from the W?

[sandi2]

Talk to us, Chris. What's going on?

[chris19]

Hey Board;

Sorry...I fell off the wagon; and it hurt. Embarrassed to post my update; but oh well. I will try to provide a timeline and conversations had below.

So where my story left off, we met up on 12/7 to sign papers; she did not have them...and we ended up talking R. It lead to me becoming upset, because I knew she was lying to me; and I left her house after I said the words "because your cheating on me with another man". That is when she sent a bunch of texts to me and called me a bunch which I did not respond - which you can read in my previous thread.

So on 12/8; she began to call a bunch and text me. I explained I was busy with school and had a final exam. She then sent a text "So do u want to try this convo again and spend some time together or do u want to go thru these papers and finalize everything?" I texted back "I will meet 2ngt and hear you out". That is when she called and I answered the phone...

Starting from this point to present day is why I say I fell off the wagon.

Our phone conversation was about 2 hours long (it will be very difficult to remember everything).
- She started by asking what I meant when I texted her "I will hear you out". I explained that I have specific needs in order to try and reconcile, and I would give her the opportunity to say whats on her mind.
- She asked why I got so upset and left her the day before. I said because you were lying to me about talking to the OM. We spend quite a bit of time on this subject...in which she was talking out both sides of her mouth (b/c I know what is the truth based on phone records).
- She asked me to explain why I thought she was lying; and I began my timeline of things she has told me about her contact with the OM, and what I knew. I told her one of my checkpoints I need is transparency with her R with him. She tried to defend herself by saying, well when you asked if we still talked, we only talked a couple times...fast forward a couple minutes, and she said, we talked like once or twice a week...then it turned into every other day. So she knew I was not letting up; and finally got to the real answer. I said; you see, this is the reason I am going to need MC because I cannot trust you and you lying to me. That is when she said something to the effect of...I am not lying; your definition of how often we talked is different than mine; that is why I said "only a couple of time"...B/S; but whatever.
- She then directly asked what I "needed"; and told her about transparency, MC, no contact and proving it, full commitment to put in work on the M, etc.
- I explained the main reason I needed MC was because they are specialized in dealing with these situations. B/C if I try to ring certain things up to you, you will get defensive, but when it comes from a third party, you might hear it better. She understood; and said "I never knew MC was that important to you".
- Then the convo turned into how she feels in this whole things.
- She feels she got her dream job too soon (right out of college); and never got to experience the world, travel, move, etc. We were together after college, and together ever since. She looks at some of her single friends and says, they are happier than I am right now, and I am not sure what that is telling me. She wants to move away from our current location for a couple months, to "find/develop herself". She spoke with her boss about this, and they are trying to work something out. Now, she has done and said these types of ideas in the past many times...she wants to do stuff like move away, but never does it.
- I asked her why she has not been doing this over the past 5 months since we have been separated; like what has changed? She did not have a good answer.
- She then explained that she thinks we should hang out to see if anything is there.
- She asked if and why I still loved her. I said I love you because I choose to love you and want to work on our marriage; but I cannot be your backup plan and also I will not force you into a R with me. People deserve to be with people who choose and want to be with each other.
- After talking about this for a bit; she said, I wish you could just tell me what to do...either we will get a D or we will recon and do what it takes. I told her, that is not my decision to make for you. Even her family has explained to me she is having trouble making up her mind recently about everything....I think she is so unhealthy right now; and possibly MLC'ing??? - not sure about this. Everything she was saying was kind of in a negative connotation, rather then seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.
- She told me how much she noticed a change in my attitude and said, you are so much stronger now; I told her it was b/c I provided myself with tools in order to heal; which I thought she might also gain from if she did similar things.

Convo faded out after I told her, it was a lot to take in; especially the huge portion of the convo about the OM; and I was mentally drained at the moment. She agreed, and asked to hang out on 12/10 to watch NFL. After we hung up, she texted me:
"My call log shows calls on this date, this date, this date, etc...and then not again until this date. Sorry if that rehashed it but wanted to give you specific dates so you can see it wasn't everyday and that I was telling the truth". I said, "thank you."

Fast forward to 12/10. We met up for the 1pm NFL games at a sports bar. Had a great time just catching up; talking about everything under the sun except R. We did laugh a lot; and sometimes even how some of her characteristics caused problems in the past (but we never got deep into R). She explained how there was a family trip planned on her side; and got a separate room because she was not sure where she would be in a couple months, either if I came, or if she went alone. After the games ended; we went our separate ways.

Over the next two days she texted a few times, just to tell me about her water heaters/house and joke around a bit. On 12/12 we actually went to visit her S and BIL who live about 1:30hr away to see their new baby boy (drove in the same car). We spend the whole day together with her fam and her mom. I dropped her off at her house when coming back into town; and she said do you want to stay her tonight. I said no thank you. She texted me after I left:
"Good to spend time with you today. Regardless of what happens ILY and value our R whatever that may be in the future. thank you for showing you care about my fam it means a lot to me". I responded, "You mean alot to me. As well as your fam. I enjoyed myself today". She sent the blushing smiley emoji.

She texted the next day 12/13 about her furnace and made a joke. I texted back a joke.

She emailed me at work something that she already sent me a couple weeks before on 12/15 asking "if I had already sent you this" - I know she knows she already sent it...

Then yesterday 12/16 I was feeling weird and texted her...DUMB!!!
"This might sound weird but one thing i miss is Saturday morning breakfast with you"
She sent:
"that doesn't sound weird lol I agree those were nice".





There is so much here I know. I hit a breaking point and wanted to see her. I am going back to NC, until she shows me something I need. I am going to focus on GAL and hitting the gym. The holiday season is so hard, and I cannot believe I am going through this limbo with my "wife" for another thanksgiving, xmas, and new years.


I feel like I fell victim to the "cycle" that artista pointed out. We had a good time during the couple of days we spent together, things were pleasent, me hopes were raised, and now she has pulled back...and now I am going to go dark...blah, blah, blah.

Again, I know how this whole thing is against policy of DB/DR/LRT; I am only human; I messed up. I know.

[Holding]

Hey Chris, thanks for giving us an update. I understand the urge to hide from this place when it feels like you've failed. But that's okay. We all fail sometimes, but we try to keep on going as best we can.

It doesn't sound as disastrous as you think. It's interesting though that she can admit there's an OM, but try to justify it b/c she's not talking to him as often as you say she is.

[artista]

Hey Board;

Sorry...I fell off the wagon; and it hurt. Embarrassed to post my update; but oh well. I will try to provide a timeline and conversations had below.

falling off the wagon is a perfect way to describe the cycle... i hope you won't stay away from the board if you should fall off of the wagon again...

it's hard to say anything to you because you already know that giving her what she wanted did nothing to advance reconciliation... and it is good you recognize that... but i will say it anyway... and not because i want to give you a hard time, but because someone else reading the boards may be able to use my perspective...

basically, she won this round... she finally got you to do what she wanted... you were manipulated by your WW who used the standard tricks of the WW trade... she got her pay-off: you to say that you were not done with the marriage... you to "just hang out" with her (like friends do)... she got to parade you around her family--"see? he still wants me."

and you got your pay-off: the chance to be close to her... to once again, let her know what you need from her--just one more time just in case you haven't been clear (you have been clear)...

and now this all buys her more time... more time to pull back... after all, she didn't say she was committed to the marriage... she didn't say she wanted to reconcile... she might even tell you that she's just not sure what she feels, and so she needs more time... more chances to "hang out with you to see if anything is still there,"--which i find offensive, and you should too...

unfortunately for you--your pay-off was short-lived... it wasn't really what you hoped it would be... it was like cotton candy... a split second of delight that melts away all too soon--leaving you unsatisfied...

so now what are you going to do? you say you will NC again... but what will you do differently? what will you do when she comes beckoning? because she will... you have to determine for yourself whether or not you want to live in this purgatory-like state... i hope you don't... it's not a good place to be... but only you can choose how you allow others to treat you... in any case, please come back whether you stay on the wagon or not... especially if you fall off--okay? because you are able to recognize that this didn't work for you, you really are further along than you realize...

mis dos centavos, y mas...

--artista

[sandi2]

I think she is so unhealthy right now; and possibly MLC'ing???

Would her behavior somehow make more sense, to know she's having a MLC at 28? Would it change your plan of action......and if so, how or what would you change?

Well, you aren't alone. There have been many H's who have come to the same conclusion. I even posted the question why they preferred their W's to have MLC rather than accepting that she was wayward. The short answer boils down to how it makes the LBH feel, to know his W really is wayward. So, it leads me to think some men do look at MLC as an excuse for their W's crazy behavior. And, I think some H's see it being an excuse for them to somehow just kind of roll with it, instead of using tough love. But that's just my opinion, and it certainly doesn't apply to all the LBH's.

A MLC can last for many years, as well as waywardness. Waywardness is a lifetime behavior pattern for some women. However, the positive side (if there is one), is that under the right circumstances......waywardness can change almost overnight.

Chris, the more I read about your W, the more I am convinced a lot of this behavior in her is nothing new. In other words, I suspect she has been manipulative and disrespectful during most of the M. But when she brought a third person into the M, her usual bad behavior was magnified by the affair. That's not to say she cannot change. I have known people who made radical behavior changes for the better. In most cases, it came at a rather high price.......and the longer they were wayward without any personal consequences, the longer and harder it was to change.

Waywardness comes from the heart, and makes the heart become hardened. Therefore, the heart will need to experience remorse, forgiveness, acceptance, willingness, compassion and honor (to name just a few) in order to soften it. When a WW's hard heart has not really changed, she can fake it only for so long. Eventually, her attitude and actions will show the true condition of her heart. That's one reason I caution H's about letting the WW come back too easily.

[chris19]

art

so now what are you going to do? you say you will NC again... but what will you do differently? what will you do when she comes beckoning?

I am going to focus on me again. I got really wrapped up in what I need to be doing to get her back; or to change myself so she saw me in a different light. Instead; I am going to do me from now on. I know she will come around to temp check again, and I am not going to entertain her until I see action of remorse and commitment. If that drives her to a D, so be it.

Sandi

Would her behavior somehow make more sense, to know she's having a MLC at 28?

I know wayward and MLC'er have similar behavioral patterns; and no it would not "make more sense" to me. I was more just spit balling with the board b/c I have been absent. I feel sad for her to be honest. I am defiantly not using it as an excuse to make it more soft that she is MLC, rather than a manipulative, lying, dishonorable, wayward person I am currently married too.

I just can't believe I am here at 30 and on the verge of a D...its really depressing, and the thought of spending another holiday away from half of my life really hurts.

[artista]

I just can't believe I am here at 30 and on the verge of a D...its really depressing, and the thought of spending another holiday away from half of my life really hurts.

i know this doesn't make it less painful, but it's better than being 40 with children on the verge of divorce... imagine that... "cheers to you focusing on YOU!"

--artista

[Anchor]

i know this doesn't make it less painful, but it's better than being 40 with children on the verge of divorce... imagine that--artista

Haha! Yes in other words, things could be much worse - you could be ME! 40 years old, a child, divorce underway, zero family in this country and 13 hours direct flight time away from my home and closest support networks!

Chris19 - don't look to other people to feel better about your situation. There's always going to be someone better off or worse off than you. In choppy seas, you don't focus on the other boats in calmer waters or bigger storms. You look to the horizon and hold on. Whether that's faith in a Higher Being or just faith in yourself, you got to figure it out - that's what this GAL is meant to be about - reconnecting with your inner core.