Fighting my way out of the dark - Part 7

[Jim1234]

Dude, we all screw up. All the mistakes I made before I found this board... whew! We live and learn from each other, and maybe pay it forward. Stick around!

[Accuray]

Holding,

Reading your posts I can see you riding the emotional roller coaster -- you're up, you're down, you're resolved, then you're second guessing yourself. That's *completely* normal. It's part of the process. This phase will pass, but it takes a good long time. When STBX moves out things will be a lot easier for you.

It feels to me like a lot of your anger is from non-confrontation -- you try to keep the peace by smoothing over things or not saying anything, but it makes you resentful, you get angry as a result, and the anger then comes out in unanticipated ways.

Longer term, in your next relationship, you're going to need to learn to be comfortable causing conflict in the moment when you're not okay with how things are going. Table that for now, deal with everything else going on, but put it on your list.

Regarding exW saying she tried to save the marriage for years, again don't be hard on yourself. First, she didn't tell you she was trying to save it so you really weren't able to participate, you didn't understand the stakes. Secondly, whatever she did (in her view) to try to save the marriage is certainly exaggerated and overblown in her memory.

The point of her "saving the marriage" would have had to have been focused on giving *you* what you need. Without a clear dialog there, STBX was contributing what she wanted to contribute, and assuming that you should appreciate it. Those are two very different things. Unless she had a direct conversation with you about what you needed in the marriage and then directly worked to provide those things, she really wasn't working on saving the marriage at all.

Glad the kids are doing well and you're enjoying the snow! Also very glad you went to your son's birthday dinner and it seems you handled things very well. Give yourself a pat on the back for that, you deserve it.

Acc

[Holding]

J9, Artista, HoosJim, Gordie, Jim, and Acc thanks for the support! I'll continue to post here. If nothing else, it might help others see some things NOT to do

i say all of this to say to you--of course you are angry...

Thanks for that. Sometimes I get the sense that my anger is unwarranted at this point, so it's nice to know this is normal.

Reading your posts I can see you riding the emotional roller coaster -- you're up, you're down, you're resolved, then you're second guessing yourself. That's *completely* normal. It's part of the process. This phase will pass, but it takes a good long time. When STBX moves out things will be a lot easier for you.

Thanks. I guess I'm still on the roller coaster. I thought maybe I was done. Now it's just that the highs and lows come in terms of days or weeks. At the beginning they were coming multiple times in a single day. That was hell.

It feels to me like a lot of your anger is from non-confrontation -- you try to keep the peace by smoothing over things or not saying anything, but it makes you resentful, you get angry as a result, and the anger then comes out in unanticipated ways.

I agree. Most of my anger comes from sweeping things under the rug. I realize this and I'm trying to come out and say when STBXW does something I'm not cool with. But it's a slow process for me.

Longer term, in your next relationship, you're going to need to learn to be comfortable causing conflict in the moment when you're not okay with how things are going. Table that for now, deal with everything else going on, but put it on your list.

I can't wait to try out the new me in new Rs!

The point of her "saving the marriage" would have had to have been focused on giving *you* what you need. Without a clear dialog there, STBX was contributing what she wanted to contribute, and assuming that you should appreciate it. Those are two very different things. Unless she had a direct conversation with you about what you needed in the marriage and then directly worked to provide those things, she really wasn't working on saving the marriage at all.

In the course of our M, we went to MC 4 times. The issues we had were always the same. It's true that I didn't do a good job of working on those issues, be she never really tried anything either. Sometimes she would miss MC appointments, or she wouldn't do the homework. Now that I think about it, it's like she just expected me to fix it all.

Glad the kids are doing well and you're enjoying the snow! Also very glad you went to your son's birthday dinner and it seems you handled things very well. Give yourself a pat on the back for that, you deserve it.

Pat! Pat!

[Holding]

So last night STBXW got in a car accident.

She was bringing S10 to his school concert. She called me in a panic and told me she was in an accident. She said she needed to get to the hospital, and asked me to come get S10 and bring him to the concert. I asked if I needed to bring her to the hospital and she responded "Just get here!" I left immediately with S15.

When I got to the accident I saw the driver side airbags had been deployed. S10 was fine, but STBXW was super freaked out, saying she hit her head on the airbag and her ears were ringing. The SOB that t-boned her drove off. A bystander had called 911 for her.

She told me again to take S10 to his concert. I asked if she wanted me to come back after I drop him off (S15 could stay with him) to help her. Or I could leave S15 with her. She frantically told me to call her sister, who could help her, and I should stay at the concert to take a video of S10's performance.

So I took S10. I called SIL, who brought STBXW to the emergency room. I texted SIL several times during the concert to check on STBXW, and SIL gave the progress through the night. STBXW was shaken up but apparently ok.

After the concert I was going to take the kids to the ER to see her, but she was released right as the concert ended. So I brought the kids home and waited for her.

When she got home I immediately went up and asked how she was. She said she was ok but will probably be in pain the next morning. She asked me to pick up a prescrption for her in an hour. Then she went to her room. I got the prescription for her and she said thanks.

This morning S15 refused to wake up on time (I tried to wake him up for 2 hours), and he was not ready by the time I had to leave for work. I told STBXW (who was in bed) what was going on, and I said I'd arrange a ride for him when he called that he was ready. At first she said ok, then she said she'd get someone to bring him. So I left.

An hour later, I get a text from her saying I should not have left without making sure S15 got to school, as she's stranded without her car. I responded that I was sorry for her accident and sitch. Her response was "Yeah right".

It's just so disappointing that she can't see the movements I make toward kindness. I don't expect to nice her back, but I do hope she can be a little less cruel toward me.

[artista]

An hour later, I get a text from her saying I should not have left without making sure S15 got to school, as she's stranded without her car. I responded that I was sorry for her accident and sitch. Her response was "Yeah right".

It's just so disappointing that she can't see the movements I make toward kindness. I don't expect to nice her back, but I do hope she can be a little less cruel toward me.

i am not sure, but it may be popular opinion here that you just let this go... but in my opinion, no... don't let anybody treat you that way... that's more of you being too nice and sweeping unpleasantness under the rug... i do not know how you should address it, but i think you ought to... why should she be allowed to treat you that way? the nerve!

mis dos centavos...

--artista

[Holding]

That's an interesting take on the sitch, Artista. I certainly don't appreciate being talked to in this way, but I'm not sure how to respond.

I suppose I can just say I didn't appreciate the comment.

Any other thoughts on this?

[EastTN]

Holding,

As a MNG with a WW I have to say that I can't count how many times I wish I had just looked at XW and told her that she could NOT talk to me that way, that I wouldn't stand for it. The closest I came during the M was to say "If I treated you the way you treat me, you'd NEVER stand for it" which in hindsight is just passive aggressive BS that probably just made her treat me worse rather than making her realize what she was doing/feel some remorse.

By the time I didn't care what she thought of me anymore it just made me look like an [censored] rather than someone who refused to be treated like that. I'm not even respected as our daughter's father, much less a man (or even a human being).

If you can make inroads on fixing that, I'd suggest trying. She's in your life at least the next eight years, and it could well be another eight years of disrespect.

[doodler]

I suppose I can just say I didn't appreciate the comment.

Any other thoughts on this?

Holding,

You might as well be teaching her advanced game theory. She's in a different league, do you really think she gives a sh*t if you don't appreciate her comment?

[Accuray]

Regarding how STBX speaks to you, I'll share my approach to parenting. I see parents deal with kids where they have to argue and negotiate everything. They'll say that the 10 year old cannot bring his toy car to the restaurant, and he'll have a tantrum, and then they argue back and forth and then eventually they cave in and he brings the car, or they make some compromise where he can bring the car for 10 minutes, etc. etc.

The problem with that approach is that it's just constant and repeated stress for both parties. With kids, certain things need to be non-negotiable, and when you establish a non-negotiable early on, everyone is happier because everyone knows the rules and there are no ongoing arguments, less stress.

In my case, I didn't allow my kids to have tantrums. If you're going to have a tantrum, go to your room, and come back when you can communicate, but I won't indulge a tantrum, and I won't respond to it. Kids will test your resolve, so you need to be consistent. After a couple attempts, my kids figured out that tantrums are a cheeseless tunnel and they will never get what they want that way -- no more tantrums. They simply understood that they will not be tolerated and everyone was much happier as a result, my kids learned how to process their emotions more productively, and I didn't have to deal with tantrums ever.

The same approach applies for dealing with STBX's snark. Everything about you, your tone, your body language, everything has to reflect firm resolve that this will not be tolerated. It won't provoke a reaction, it won't provoke you to engage, it just won't do anything. When you make it clear that there are no cracks in your armor, and that being snarky will never get her satisfaction, then she will stop doing it. It's no fun to provoke someone who doesn't respond.

Set in your mind and repeat "I will not accept Snark from STBX". When she gets snarky, shut it down and your reaction must always be the same -- "Not okay, I will not stand for snarky comments", said calmly and with authority.

Acc

[Holding]

(Thanks to East, Doodler, and Acc for the latest posts)

I've confirmed there's an active OM. I don't really want to get into the details here. STBXW had a "girls' night" over the weekend and didn't come home Saturday night. Feel free to ask questions, but I probably won't be able to answer them.

I met with my IC and worked through a lot of emotions. I feel like such a fool for letting this horrible person into my life, and for having her as the mother of my children. I feel bad for them. I'm not surprised this is happening, it's just that actually knowing is different from suspecting.

This is making things a little easier on me in a sense, because it's making my path forward clear. I don't think there's any self-doubt left. Infidelity has always been a dealbreaker for me. I have a lot of respect for those who can get past it.

One thing I can say is that when STBXW is thinking about OM, she borrows my Bluetooth speaker and listens to love songs - loudly. It infuriates me. So this morning I told her I didn't want her to use my speaker to listen to her love songs, and I wanted it back. She laughed at me, called me a moron and a fvcktard. I told her she might think she can talk to me like that for the rest of her life, but she's wrong. She spent the rest of the morning laughing and snickering at me in front of S10. I ignored her.

I have not confronted her with what I know. I don't plan to.

This is going to be the worst Christmas ever, and I really don't want to do Christmas morning with her any more. But I don't know what other options I have if I want to see my kids on Christmas.