[quote=Hermes]Am assuming I still did the right thing based on all the feedback I got... but wondering what Cadet meant by [quote=Cadet] Moving out of the house and bedroom is a MAJOR mistake that is made in these situations.[quote]
H,
You did the right thing she is sleeping with another man. If you went to the basement that would be the wrong thing.
I've been holding onto hope that she might still come around before D is final...
No, it's not likely. But is it really that different if she 'comes around' a month after D? A year after D? a week before D?
My point is that the divorce is just a reporting of your relationship status to the government. Being divorced doesnt dictate how you feel about her or your family.
YOU do.
I understand I control my reactions to it... I could have told her to leave as soon as I found out about A and told everyone, gone to OM W and told her etc.
I'm just not sure how much longer is healthy once D is final... I don't want to be JUST her friend. I don't want to ever hear about how things are going GREAT for her or how much she likes OM or god forbid that they are moving in together down the road or worse...
Even the thought of these things as I write them make my heart ache. Maybe I'll feel differently later... but right now and since she told me she was done... Its a future I want no part of with her should it come to pass... I feel I'd be happier just letting her go completely and finally, never sharing any details of either of our lives again, save for minimal contact for kids sake.
Originally Posted By: Kaizen
Originally Posted By: Hermes
but once it's final, I figured no reason to keep on hoping,
In her mind, the divorce is already final.
She is sleeping with another man. She is emotionally attached to another man. What thread of marriage are you desperately holding on to?
Hope is good. And im not saying to run out and divorce her.
Im telling you to step back and look at your situation with a beginner's mind. If youve already lost everything, what more is there to lose?
All I have is hope at this point... You are right... One thing another Marriage saving person told me early on is that "If your marriage is good that's all that really matters, and if it's not nothing else matters in life" She's gone... like sand slipping through my fingers as we speak... She applied for APT but hasn't signed lease yet... figure it's only a formality then she's locked into 1 yr lease... know much worse is to come... and I'm likely to break down completely when we tell her parents, my parents, and our kids.
Originally Posted By: Kaizen
Originally Posted By: Hermes
Other than LRT and keeping her in Basement to sleep along with continuing to GAL, work on self and focus on kids... anything else I'm missing?
Hermes - Have you read DR?
If so, what are your goals? Not just about marriage. But what do you want to accomplish? What are you doing to get there? It's probably the MOST important chapter in the book, but almost everyone I see runs straight to the chapter on 'what to do' --> LRT, etc.
Those things above are loose concepts that dont show any clear plan to me.
How can you get somewhere without a map? Thats the goal setting!
Ive read both DR/DB and some of the infidelity book and also have the change your life and everyone in it... have re-read parts of both... and continue to go back to them... but you are right... I didn't give goal setting much emphasis.
Guess I've been so focused on trying to save the marriage that in retrospect was likely DOA when BD, that I thought my goal WAS saving the marriage... setting small goals like she will recognize and thank me for things that I do for her... etc. which she now does (didn't do it for first 3 months)... Guess none of these goals really matters now...
I know I need to find what makes ME happy again... and part of that is GAL going out with friends (which I'm doing more regularly), exercising (which I do religiously several times a week), losing weight (70+lbs and counting), get in touch with things that make me happy (hiking, meeting new people, dancing, listening to live music [this one is hard b/c we did so much of this together as a couple; doing it now without her tends to bring her absence to the forefront again], Reading, doing things with kids (again hard without her b/c we used to do all of these things mostly together with them.. and it feels like we're preparing them for D without them knowing it... although it's 2.5 wks from the big reveal to the world at this point so what's the difference). Getting a new job and settling into it... Trying to figure out how to protect myself from the D and what she's likely to pull (I'm optimistic that she really ISN'T looking to screw me... but I am almost 100% certain we have vastly different definitions of what this looks like).
It's also looking at the damage caused by my past behavior. re-evaluating it and working to ensure it never happens again (understanding the damage, the pain, and healthier ways of interacting etc.) Just really hard to interact when there's no one else to do this with.
Beyond this, I don't have any clue... not even sure where to start...
Me 47 STBXW 44 M ~20 D13 S15 BD mid 17 A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr OM decade older S Imminent D Soon after
[quote=Ginger1 You need to stop with all the explantions and words. Just BE that man, don't tell her about it. You keep making up this conversations you would have in certain scenarios. Thinking the right words will flip her around. it doesn't happen that way.
And as far as giving her conditions on coming back in the bedroom? Don't. Just tell her she is out. When she is ready to ask back, then you decide if you actually want her there. [/quote]
Thank you for again trying to keep me on the right path here... focus on what I need to do vs. might do, could do.
It will be interesting to see if she does ask to come back into the BR or just shows up there again at some point... As long as she's in A, and wants nothing to do with me, I'm don't think it makes any sense for us to share a bed... just causes me to want her (especially as its been months of no physical touch) and isn't good for me... can't sleep. Note: she's also having a hard time sleeping... many nights wakes up at 4 5 5:30 am and can't get back to sleep...
Me 47 STBXW 44 M ~20 D13 S15 BD mid 17 A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr OM decade older S Imminent D Soon after
Great Job on GALs. What kind of beer to you like? Wings and beer are my favorite meal. Well use to be. The W and I are vegans. It hasn't been that hard. Not as hard as I thought.
Is the hike, moderate or hard?
Thanks for the support GAL is becoming pretty easy for me. I like pretty much all beer... but have a thing for craft and unusual (I also make my own). Have been vegetarian several times in life... vegan is more difficult but kudos for sticking with it... still a lot of tasty options out there (Tempeh, Tofu, Seitan Steak, etc.). Most of the hikes are moderate pace not many big terrain changes right around where I live... but the all day ones tend to provide more variety... (just don't happen at this time of the year).
Me 47 STBXW 44 M ~20 D13 S15 BD mid 17 A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr OM decade older S Imminent D Soon after
Have you changed your look. Are you wearing clothes that fit. Have you gotten new smell good.
Stop worrying about what your W is thinking and what she is doing. You have to let go. If you want her back let her go. Stop trying to hold on to her. Pick your head up, stop looking down on yourself. You made your mistakes, you acknowledge them. Now it's time to work on becoming H2.0. Stop worrying about if she sees your changes. You caused damage. We all have. Now you are working and fixing that damage. Great job. You are on this forum. Stop looking back at your mistakes and look at where you have come and where you are going.
Worrying is taking a thought and replaying it over and over in your head. You have these buffering thoughts in your mind. Let them go (stop buffering). I know it's hard. Worrying stops you from interacting the way to your truly need to. Worrying stunts your growth. If you believe in GOD. I'm a christian, then there's a saying that goes, if you asked GOD to do something for you, and you are up at night worrying, then GOD can go to sleep(which he doesn't), because you are trying to do his JOB for him.
Start smiling at your W, start laughing around her. Do these things over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Sooner or later she will smile and laugh back. If you have to do it a 100 times or 1000 times, do it. It's not about the smiling and laughing, it's about the consistency. At first it will feel fake, but as time goes on it will become natural. Be positive with your W. Don't resent or be mad at her. Positive begets positive. If she yells at you, you smile back. If she tells you something you don't like, you smile back.
You respect yourself and she will respect you back. When she notice, that her mood can't affect yours, she will know that there's a new H. H2.0.
Let her leave. YOU WANT A WIFE THAT WANTS TO LIVE WITH YOU. Give her a chance to feel what it's like to live without you. In that time, you get buff, you find new friends, you find new hobbies, you move on with your life, not looking back for her at all.
You are the prize not her. Pick your head, I can see it hanging down as I read. Look in the mirror and smile, and get some clothes that fit that new body, 70 pounds, man that's awesome. Get some new smell good. When you dress good and smell good, you feel good. Let your W see and smell the new you. Smile and say hi and by to your W. Detach lovingly. Here's the thing and AS is the best at this. If you truly love your W, you don't want to hurt her, you just want her to respect you.
Loving someone is hard and it takes work. But what I find that's harder than loving someone else is loving yourself. Are your loving yourself right now. You have to love yourself before someone else can love you.
See the premise. Respect yourself and others will respect you. Love yourself and others will love you. Be positive in yourself and others will be positive around you. All roads leads back to self. So fixing ourselves is the true journey not saving our M. And by doing all these things, we make ourselves more attractive, we leave our S space to find themselves and see us as not really being the problem. We also give them space so we can heal, and not create anymore damages, this makes the road paved back to us smooth.
Keep your head up. Onward and Forward.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Update on last night: Fed kids, took them to activities, WW picked them up after (she was working then working out b4 like most nights). Made dinner for her/I. she came home seemed annoyed that I already fed kids... think she thought we all ate and she was on her own (which I feel would have been mean so didn't do).
We ate in silence reading paper... she made a few comments as did I.
Later we all worked to decorate the Christmas tree... WW and I handing ornaments to kids to put on. Me taking a few Pics... I commented on many of them remembering where we got them (she did hers mostly in silence but commented on a couple from her childhood that were special to her... one of which we'd never put up b/c it was missing a ribbon to hang it with... so I went and found one said it deserves to be on tree).
After this, tree was a bit crooked... so S16 and I worked on it... she reminded me with, a snarky voice, of a comment I made to her last year when she did it all on her own with kids about the same thing... and I remembered how I acted about fixing it (not great; wish I could blame it all on Depression... but know I chose to act that way).
A short while later I went into office where she was and very calmly told her, "I am so sorry for the tree last year, and about so many other things from the past. If I could go back and change the past, and do things differently, I would do it In a heartbeat. For that matter if I had that ability I'd go back even further and kick my younger self in the ass for how he was behaving... but I can't change what's happened. I can only change the future and that's what I'm working on, becoming the best me I can be because I never want to be that way again in any relationship I'm likely to have in the future.
She started to tear up... I walked calmly out of the office.
later, She asked a few logistical questions and gave some suggestions on what I could do with D12 on my night with her this weekend.
I acknowledged and thanked her for suggestions.
later she came upstairs after I had already laid down got her pillow and went downstairs.
This am she was polite but reserved just like I was. As she left said, have a good day... I said same to her...
as I'm GAL tonight and now S16 needs a ride early in evening... she asked if I could do it as she stays at work until workout then comes home after... so would be imposition for her... I thought about telling her I couldn't, but as I didn't have anything planned, it felt rude... sent email to her/S16 saying I'd pickup.
She's texted me several times about logistical things... I responded... Guessing this is OK? as long as I'm not the one initiating?
We'll see how this progresses... 4th day of No R/A talk, 3rd of LRT being reserved.
Trying to keep Balance in forefront of mind at all times.
Me 47 STBXW 44 M ~20 D13 S15 BD mid 17 A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr OM decade older S Imminent D Soon after
Have you changed your look. Are you wearing clothes that fit. Have you gotten new smell good.
new wardrobe... dressing much more "adult and professional" working hard to remain clean cut at all times... Found a cologne I liked and put it on daily... (she's commented several times I'm putting it on to thick...so cut back some... AND she's commented on it calling it me wearing "perfume" I'm guessing to cut me down... but I just smile and go about my business).
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Stop looking back at your mistakes and look at where you have come and where you are going.
Worrying is taking a thought and replaying it over and over in your head. You have these buffering thoughts in your mind. Let them go (stop buffering). I know it's hard. Worrying stops you from interacting the way to your truly need to. Worrying stunts your growth. If you believe in GOD. I'm a christian, then there's a saying that goes, if you asked GOD to do something for you, and you are up at night worrying, then GOD can go to sleep(which he doesn't), because you are trying to do his JOB for him.
I am in fact joining the church as we speak... have been Christian all my life... just not a joiner. I like that quote
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Start smiling at your W, start laughing around her. Do these things over, and over, and over, and over, and over. Sooner or later she will smile and laugh back. If you have to do it a 100 times or 1000 times, do it. It's not about the smiling and laughing, it's about the consistency. At first it will feel fake, but as time goes on it will become natural. Be positive with your W. Don't resent or be mad at her. Positive begets positive. If she yells at you, you smile back. If she tells you something you don't like, you smile back.
You have a great point there... I had vacillated all over the map... euphoric one day... upset the next... Working on Balance... lately I've been somewhat Melancholy... That said, A simple smile towards her whenever I see her... and finding things to laugh about with/around her... THAT I can do! great suggestion. and one that I've gotten from many including MWD (always be upbeat around her no matter what...)
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
You respect yourself and she will respect you back. When she notice, that her mood can't affect yours, she will know that there's a new H. H2.0.
Let her leave. YOU WANT A WIFE THAT WANTS TO LIVE WITH YOU. Give her a chance to feel what it's like to live without you. In that time, you get buff, you find new friends, you find new hobbies, you move on with your life, not looking back for her at all.
You are the prize not her. Pick your head, I can see it hanging down as I read. Look in the mirror and smile... Smile and say hi and by to your W. Detach lovingly. Here's the thing and AS is the best at this. If you truly love your W, you don't want to hurt her, you just want her to respect you.
Loving someone is hard and it takes work. But what I find that's harder than loving someone else is loving yourself. Are your loving yourself right now. You have to love yourself before someone else can love you.
See the premise. Respect yourself and others will respect you. Love yourself and others will love you. Be positive in yourself and others will be positive around you. All roads leads back to self. So fixing ourselves is the true journey not saving our M. And by doing all these things, we make ourselves more attractive, we leave our S space to find themselves and see us as not really being the problem. We also give them space so we can heal, and not create anymore damages, this makes the road paved back to us smooth.
Keep your head up. Onward and Forward.
WOW this is powerful stuff... You are right... my head was hanging pretty low recently (much more so since her Communications proposal came out). Working on self esteem, smiling at her (I actually am fairly positive now (used to be extreme pessimist) and even all of this junk in my life hasn't made me become pessimistic again... still smile, want to do nice things for others, am working on my kids to help them be better people (kinder, explaining to them concepts I'm learning in church as I join about the religion; trying to connect more with them).
Thank you for sharing this with me
Me 47 STBXW 44 M ~20 D13 S15 BD mid 17 A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr OM decade older S Imminent D Soon after
A short while later I went into office where she was and very calmly told her, "I am so sorry for the tree last year, and
Quote:
about so many other things from the past. If I could go back and change the past, and do things differently, I would do it In a heartbeat. For that matter if I had that ability I'd go back even further and kick my younger self in the ass for how he was behaving... but I can't change what's happened. I can only change the future and that's what I'm working on, becoming the best me I can be because I never want to be that way again in any relationship I'm likely to have in the future.
H man you have to stop this. Why are you apologizing for? You both did the things in the MR to get you to this point. Is she apologizing to you for having an A, how sorry she is, wishes she could take it back, etc?
Quote:
She's texted me several times about logistical things... I responded... Guessing this is OK? as long as I'm not the one initiating?
You can respond if she asks you a question. No need to respond if it is just informational. You should not initiate conversations unless they are kid or finance related.
H man you have to stop this. Why are you apologizing for? You both did the things in the MR to get you to this point. Is she apologizing to you for having an A, how sorry she is, wishes she could take it back, etc?
I hear what you are saying... and she's told me she's sorry that A hurts me...
I'm thinking of this more in terms of helping her to heal... I did ALOT of crap to her over the years... regardless of outcome now... and the fact that what she's doing is all on her... I still want to help her heal if I can for the past.
Me 47 STBXW 44 M ~20 D13 S15 BD mid 17 A Disc. 2 months after BD but evidence found ~2yr OM decade older S Imminent D Soon after
Hermes, you've been getting some awesome advice so do read and re-read it to keep on track. The only thing I would like to add is slooooooow down! You seem very concerned that every little thing you do may make or break your recon chances and you keep coming back here to describe every little interaction to see if you "did the right thing". The reason we call this a marathon is because it takes a long, long time to resolve. BD may have seemed sudden to you but to your W it was the culmination of months or years of what she felt was neglect in the M. She thought about it a long time before BD'ing. Now that she has BD'd, she feels like she shouldn't and can't go back. Right now no matter what you do she is done with you. She doesn't like you, she may even hate you. Why? Because it's her way of justifying BD and D. The key to getting her back is changing yourself and letting her see those changes over a long period of time. No one thing you do is going to make or break your recon chances, rather it's the aggregate of what you do over the coming months or maybe even years (yes it can take that long). So change for YOU, not for her. And be very patient.
Also please read Sandi's rules at least once a day.
A lot of people misinterpret DB'ing and especially detachment as them needing to be cold, indifferent and uncaring towards their WAS. That is not detachment, not at all. Most WAS's felt the LBS was like that for a long time anyway, so in fact that would be "more of the same" behavior. DB'ing is something of an art form- it's standing firm, being strong and establishing boundaries but doing it in a loving, respectful manner. I think that's where Sandi's rules really shine, it helps to understand how you go about doing that.
