She is talking at this point. Has she seeked you out. Has she came knocking at your door. She hasn't, she knows if she threaten you, youbwilk get weak. Stay strong. Her words or weak, her actions are strong. Make her lead with her actions by not taking the bait with her words.
Dont respond to that printing papers out text. Its not worth your time.
Keep up the great work.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
I am no Sandi, but here is my take on your options!
Originally Posted By: chris19
Sandi; I am trying to get down to brass-tax right now with you; and please be as blunt as you would like. I am trying to determine the outcome of this situation.
Don't try to determine the outcome of the situation. You don't know what's going to happen and you need to be okay and learn to thrive in the ambiguity. What you do know is going to happen is that you're becoming a better version of Chris and that's what's most important.
1) she will get so fed up with me not responding and not communicating with her that she will continue with her guilt and blame as I am the one causing the D (like she has been doing).
Classic manipulation. Let her put whatever blame she wants on you. She's deflecting. She's with OM and she's lying to you about it. Nothing about that is accountable for your side of the street.
2) she will get so fed up with me not responding to communicating with her that she will file.
That may be one outcome. There are other possibilities. If she files, let her file and do the work.
3) she will snap out and come to me with a humble and extreme apology asking for forgiveness, etc.
Maybe. But if her actions match her words and she shows remorse etc, then you can decide what to do. Right now it's a hypothetical, so don't worry about it.
4) I will eventually file.
That's totally okay too. Filing for D is a personal choice and there's tons on this board about why people have filed based on their circumstances. I am sure you can read up on it and make up your mind about what you want to do.
What am I missing.
Right now you need to keep NC/Dark and not fall for her manipulation and lies and guilt and control. Stop being afraid of her reactions. I know easier said then done, but I've done it and it's hugely liberating and empowering.
Just block her or find a way to not be in communication with her. She needs to show her worth by actions, not words.
I completely agree and understand all that you said...but for some reason I can’t freaking brake that train of thought...it’s so frustrating to myself. She’s treated me like such crap (losing, OM, etc)...like why WOULD I give her a time of day?!? I don’t let anyone else comtrol me this way (work, friends, family, strangers). She has this stupid hold on me.
I don't know how to help you get your head straight about why you allow her to treat you badly. Here's what I am concerned about for you. What makes you think she'll change? I think this was pretty much been her MO all along (before the affair, etc), and maybe you just made excuses and continued in your NGS. You said to be blunt, so.........I have little hope she'll treat you any differently. I do have hope you can break away from her hold and have a good life without her........if you will not fall into the same trap with WW#2. But as for this girl changing........I don't think it's going to be a "snap out" occurrence for her. She will need to learn some valuable relationship lessons. Her heart has to change, Chris, and it's obvious it hasn't. As long as she knows you are scared of filing for a D, I think she will be like a cat playing with a mouse.
Before I forget to mention about your IC, I think you need to stop using him as a MC. It only confuses you. He is giving terrible advice in what to do about your situation with a wayward W.
I really have nothing new or different to tell you. I wrote out a long post, then deleted it, b/c I have told you all that stuff previously. You have to drop her. If you don't dump her and walk away, she will never want you, and she'll continue to twist everything you say (and especially, don't say), and wrap you around her middle finger.
She really likes to guilt you, doesn't she? She guilted you for not recognizing her birthday.....and now, she's guilting you over a mole she had removed. What's next? This is how separation looks, sweetheart.
Actually, I thought you were doing much better, until you agreed to meet for a talk. Beware of any "talks" brefore Christmas). She is baiting you, and trying to get you to tell her you don't want a D. Well, don't tell her again. Instead, tell her she can think anything she wants, b/c you are done playing her games. Yep, that's what I'm saying. If you had told her that as soon as you found about her affair, she would have thrown herself at your feet. She won't now......b/c she'll probably get pi$$ed and say, "Fine, if you are done, then I might as well file"! So what else is new? Another threat? Play the guilt card some more? Tell her to do whatever she wants. (She will anyway).
Look, it's just like I've said before........until she sees you are actually dumping her, she is not going to change how she treats you. Will she file for a D? IDK, but what if she does? It may take a D for her heart to change.......or for you to break free of the unhealthy hold she has on you. If the girl does change for the better........I suspect it may take years.
One thing I know about the kind of person she is........that as long as she can play you for a sap, she will not respect you as a man.
My son asked me once, "Why are some women drawn to men who treat them like cr@p"? My answer was, "B/c they think they've found a man who won't take their cr@p".
((Chris)), I know you wanted to save your M. I honestly don't see it happening anytime soon. Maybe, after enough time has passes without having you in her life........she will mature and the two of you of might have a second chance. That is something you have to decide if it's worth it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
as i said in my thread, i am impressed with your willingness to delve into DBing... you may question the tactics, but you still do them--for the most part... have some success... and then you get scared...
you say you are confused because of the conflicting messages you are getting from your IC and here... but are you really confused? i think you really know that what your IC is telling you is not what you need to be doing... but your IC's way lets you be in touch with your WW, and that appeals to you... tugs at you...
don't do it...
if you did what your IC suggested, your WW would put you in a place you don't want to be... she would see you as "a friend," and/or she would pit you against OM... you would have to compete for her... and you would be at a disadvantage... she would tell you that she would have to "see" how things go between the two of you before she could commit, never intending to commit... then what?
then you are back to doing what you are already doing... NC... GAL... until she scoots your way again--manipulating you to bring you back into relationship talks... and the cycle repeats... don't do all that... from what i have seen, it takes most LBS several cycles before they full-on DB, if they ever get there...
however, you--Chris19--have not really cycled... you have had a couple of slip ups, but that's it... i think you are doing really well... don't let yourself get caught up in the cycle...
one more thing--since you have been posting here, your wife has mentioned printing out and signing "the papers"... exactly what papers is she talking about? do you definitely know?
Hey Art; thanks for chiming in - I really appreciate your thoughts. I do agree...I go fro really understanding and developing great DB'ing habits...then I do get sucked into the fear of WW being mad at me, guilt-ing me, etc.
When she says papers, she is meaning dissolution papers. We have no children and no shared assets at the moment. So instead of doing a D, we will do a dissolution.
The unfortunate thing is, I did get sucked into a cycle here as we are meeting up on Thursday night. Now I know most of you will have negative thoughts/comments about me getting sucked into a R talk and meeting her (knowing she will have papers there); but it is happening.
So I ask you all, please give me some thoughts or words of advise for me because I am actually meeting up with her. Without expectations, what are some plans of attack here?
M:30 W:28 T:9 MR:2.5 NoKids Seperation 1: 9/16-12/16 Move back in: 1/17 BD: 8/15 She moved out: 9/1
IF she actually shows up with papers (she might not, she's still trying to play with you) keep it short, take the copy she gives you, thank her for putting it together, tell her you'll get back to her after you've had time to look it over, and leave. Be upbeat the whole time (you can crash and cry later after you get out of there).
If she doesn't show up with papers? Just leave. You have somewhere else to be in your exciting life without her.
No R talks. At all. Do NOT reiterate that this isn't what you wanted. Be pleasant, then go.
So I ask you all, please give me some thoughts or words of advise for me because I am actually meeting up with her. Without expectations, what are some plans of attack here?
Plans of attack? Do you mean plan of action?
What is it you want, Chris? Are you ready to sign the papers? If not, then would she persue with a D? IDK, I am asking you.
If you do not want to sign papers, just tell her. Don't get into a R talk. Simply tell her you aren't ready. And if you are ready.......do it.
Considering how she loves to tempt check you, it's difficult for me to believe she has any papers, or that she'll actually file them......unless she gets mad enough. I think she wants to taunt you......and that's her reason for the meeting. She may flash some papers and try to make it sound like it's what you want. Don't let her get to you with her games. You are Fonzie Cool, sitting there and watching her performance........until you tire of it.
Your plan of action is to stay out of a R discussion with her. That is your main focus. If she starts putting words in your mouth, you don't have to reply......b/c it is how she plays the game. You can say, once, something like, "You are free to think whatever you want. I am not here to argue or try to change your mind".
She knows what she has done wrong. Don't take responsibility for her failures. You can sit there listening to her cr@p, or you can leave (if you see she's not signed any papers). If she has signed them...,...then it's your decision what to do. Sign them and walk away, or tell her you aren't ready, and walk away.
I don't want to sound as if I'm encouraging you to D. I just want you to know what you really want in your heart. I want to encourage you to examine your mind/heart as to why you really want her. Not what you wish she was.......but the real person you know her to be. I ask, as an outsider. Why do you love her? Can you see her changing? Do you see a dissolution of the M, as a personal failure? Would that mindset cause you to cling to an unhealthy R? If you really want to keep this girl, in hopes that she might change........then don't sign the papers. Just be deeply honest with yourself. We are on your side. ((hugs))
FWIW, I don't know anything about legal dissolution of M, where one spouse refuses to sign. I don't know if it does any good to contest it. I suppose it might go before a Judge? IDK. Knowing your options, or if you have any, is the smart action.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
What I want is to be happy with her; which blows, b/c it is not reality at the moment. So I guess me answer is; I do not want to give up yet.
I am not sure if she would file if I do not file... I am really unsure of anything she is doing/acting like these days; its saddening.
The flicker of hope does tell me she can change under the right circumstances; but it is just that, a flicker. I am becoming so clear headed now about how she has been treating me not just as of the BD, but the year leading up to the BD (when she started this affair). I was in such an unhealthy place before - which I can see now; and I can also see how it effected the R. I also see how she is responding to this whole situation, by using blame shifting, validation, dismissal, and lying; which lets me know she is still wayward and not in a healthy state.
I need to focus my energy and thoughts to a peaceful place, knowing I got to where I am; and now I just need to deal with it as an adult for my safety. If that means enforcing boundaries to a WW, so be it. But the life of being stuck in a R with a WW is absolutely worse than a life without the woman you used to love.
M:30 W:28 T:9 MR:2.5 NoKids Seperation 1: 9/16-12/16 Move back in: 1/17 BD: 8/15 She moved out: 9/1
