still struggling

[Tread]

The same could be said about her not thinking about the kids with this divorce. Continue to stand your ground with this one. Reality was definitely setting on her ride home. W decision means that she is also divorcing your family.

[Jim1234]

Something else that's going on... WAW called to let me know something about the refinancing, and when she was on the phone let me know she was just getting out of a doctor's office, and she was going back on antidepressants because she's "having a hard time coping".

I replied with a non-committal "hmmmm" when what I really wanted to say was, "How is it possible that you are depressed? After all, I was the cause of ALL the ills in your life, and it should be just perfect now that I'm not in it any more."

I'd like to think that this would serve as a wake up call that the issues in her life don't have as much to do with me as she has led herself to believe, but I'm not about to hold my breath.

And not that I would wish depression on anyone, but it is kind of validating to know that her problems are her own, and I have nothing to do with them. Also, after years and years of taking care of her, it's nice to know that I no longer have to.

[Jim1234]

The same could be said about her not thinking about the kids with this divorce.

That's exactly what I thought.

Continue to stand your ground with this one. Reality was definitely setting on her ride home. W decision means that she is also divorcing your family.

Yup, I am NOT going to spend Thanksgiving with the woman who is divorcing me. I think the realization that my family and I are a package deal never occurred to her.

[Jim1234]

I've heard from my other brothers; they all offered to host an alternate Thanksgiving this year so B and her husband can host WAW. No one is going to B's except WAW.

I hope they enjoy each other's company, because no one wants anything to do with either of them.

[AnotherStander]

I asked her about Thanksgiving and she said B and my brother had invited her down. I told her I would not be comfortable if the woman who was divorcing me came and spent the holiday with my family. She was visibly upset, and mentioned that I would be welcome anytime with her family.

Of course she's upset, you just stole some of her cake-eating right out from under her! How dare you!

She said that she thought I was not thinking about the kids

Well I might agree with her if it were a birthday or Christmas because those are specifically about the kids, but Thanksgiving is more of a family gathering where a lot of socializing (and, usually, drinking) is going on and having an ex there is just really inappropriate. I can say from personal experience that when exes have shown up at our family gatherings the results have been nothing short of nuclear.

I replied with a non-committal "hmmmm" when what I really wanted to say was, "How is it possible that you are depressed? After all, I was the cause of ALL the ills in your life, and it should be just perfect now that I'm not in it any more."

Well this is what happens a lot. The WAS is going through depression and struggles, and because they don't understand what is going on they look for an easy target- the spouse. And just as you say, they often discover that once the spouse is removed from the equation, the depression and problems remain. Then they have to do some serious soul-searching to try and sort out what is REALLY wrong, and after that, sometimes they are open to reconciling. It's really not a surprise she's still depressed, that was pretty predictable.

I've heard from my other brothers; they all offered to host an alternate Thanksgiving this year so B and her husband can host WAW. No one is going to B's except WAW.

I hope they enjoy each other's company, because no one wants anything to do with either of them.

I know it's tough but try not to be angry or vindictive about it. You've come up with a good solution, so just enjoy it as best you can.

[Jim1234]

Thanks AS. I appreciate your input.

Update on Thanksgiving.... B's husband sent out an email to the family reiterating his offer to hold Thanksgiving, and wondering what everyone's plans were. No one responded, I'm pretty sure because they were waiting to see what my response was. I was out of the country and didn't see it for a while, and didn't respond when I did see it.

Talked to WAW about college financial stuff when I got home this morning. At the end of the convo, she mentioned that she was probably going to work over Thanksgiving since B and her husband were no longer hosting (apparently there were phone calls in my absence), and "someone" (she meant "my Dad" who no longer wants anything to do with her) said they were upset she was invited, but I told her "no, I let everyone know I would be uncomfortable with you there."

I called my mom afterward and she let me know B and her family were now going to her sister's for Thanksgiving, and we'd be going to my other brother's. Apparently her daughter 17 is upset that she won't see my kids. While I'm sad about that, too, I'm not wasting too much energy worrying about a situation that her mom and dad created.

Also, I did send an email to my brother expressing how deeply hurt, upset, and betrayed I felt by his actions, and made clear that he owed me a huge apology. The ball's in his court and we'll see what happens.

This whole situation has really opened my eyes to a lot of things, and I really am starting to feel indifferent about saving my marriage.

[Jim1234]

Thanksgiving went really well. I got a response from both B and my brother apologizing for their actions. They still went to her sisters, but the rest of the family had a great Thanksgiving weekend, and I saw my brother Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday. Saw B on Saturday for a few minutes. She was cold, and I don't care.

W went to England to help her mom move, and stayed until Saturday. Didn't speak/text her for more than a week, until last night and I think I only heard from her because she was pissed.

My kid's godmother asked me if we could get together for dinner before Xmas so they could give the kids presents, with W or without, whichever I preferred. I said without would be great and made plans for this Sunday. W just found out about it, and sent me a text saying, "What the heck happened to discussing things like making plans for the kids.... Not sure who I should be more pissed at....."

Our custody is a very loose arrangement.... some days I have the kids, some days she has them, depending on our work schedules, so she is absolutely right, I should have discussed it with her, and told her so.

Here's where it gets sticky, though. I'd like to validate, and not say "but...." (thank you 25mlc), but 1) I arranged dinner without her because I thought it would be good for me to gain some distance and start new traditions, and 2) her reply to my apology was that the invitation included all of us, and I never mentioned it. She said it was "rude."

So how do I convey that our friend reached out to ME, and I didn't want to include W because of number 1)?

I'm thinking "I don't want this divorce, but that is the hand I've been dealt. I wasn't trying to be rude, but since we're divorcing, we both need to start new traditions, and I need to create some emotional distance between us. But, yes, I should have discussed my plans with you."

I had planned to cut and paste from Joseph9's thread about Christmas, but I'm not sure how to do that, and still "create new traditions." I think I will just ask what her plans are and does she want to coordinate gifts.

[AnotherStander]

Jim, that sounds great with your family, good to hear things are mostly patched up. I think that now that they know the situation and your wishes better, things will go smoother in the future.

My kid's godmother asked me if we could get together for dinner before Xmas so they could give the kids presents, with W or without, whichever I preferred. I said without would be great and made plans for this Sunday. W just found out about it, and sent me a text saying, "What the heck happened to discussing things like making plans for the kids.... Not sure who I should be more pissed at....."

Our custody is a very loose arrangement.... some days I have the kids, some days she has them, depending on our work schedules, so she is absolutely right, I should have discussed it with her, and told her so.

Here's where it gets sticky, though. I'd like to validate, and not say "but...." (thank you 25mlc), but 1) I arranged dinner without her because I thought it would be good for me to gain some distance and start new traditions, and 2) her reply to my apology was that the invitation included all of us, and I never mentioned it. She said it was "rude."

Hmmm, you're getting into some grey area there. I assume the godmother is a friend of the family, IE, someone that both you and your W knows? My inclination on that would be to tell your W "I've thought about it and I agree with you, this is more for the kids and is probably something we should do together this year." I mean as you know from what I said before I think she's crossing the line to expect to be involved in events with your side of the family, but a godparent is more what I would consider neutral. So I can see how your W would be upset and think you're "rallying the troops" to your side.

I'm thinking "I don't want this divorce, but that is the hand I've been dealt.

I wouldn't say that (ever), she knows your feelings on that.

[Jim1234]

Thanks, AS, you give great advice.

[Jim1234]

I have a question for everyone who has had to buy a spouse out of the marital home....

I envision refinancing, with the equity being included in the marital estate, which will then be divided evenly (or in whatever proportion the court decides). She envisions receiving a lump sum for her half of the equity as soon as I refinance.

Her way would mean I would have to refinance a much larger amount, which I don't want to do. Not only would it make my mortgage that much larger, but it would cost me quite a bit of money to even get that mortgage (I can refinance the current balance for the same term at no cost, but if I change either of those, I have to pay roughly $8K). I don't envision staying here for more than another 2 1/2 years, so the added cost makes no sense to me.

The reason this is coming up is that the mortgage company sent me a form she has to sign to take her off the title, which includes an "amount owed to you to be removed from the title" line, so it will have to be addressed.

How do most people address this?

As an added bonus, I told her I would refinance our house to get her name off it, so she could refinance her house and get my name off that one. She didn't think she would be able to refinance hers until her name was off ours.

The kicker is that to enable her to buy the house at all, she signed a special warranty deed giving me sole ownership of her house if she hasn't refinanced by Dec 20, which is rapidly approaching. Since the threat of kicking her out of her house didn't seem like it would facilitate a reconciliation, I agreed to refinance my house first.

I realize now that refinancing might not be that simple, and I'm looking for some advice. How do I say "I'll refinance, but you'll get nothing until equitable distribution," without holding the threat of taking her house over her head? Or maybe I should stop being Mr Nice Guy, and just do it, but that seems like it would driver her farther away.