Let's pretend for 5 seconds there was never OM and she just decided to leave, but came back and is now "working on the M"
How invested do you think she is about making this marriage better with YOU?
I think you cloud yourself with OM so much that it's hard to look at your M and selves. Let's pretend like he doesn't exist for a minute and never did. How would you rate your M at this time?
I think you cloud yourself with OM so much that it's hard to look at your M and selves. Let's pretend like he doesn't exist for a minute and never did. How would you rate your M at this time?
According to whom?
To hear my W tell it, "perhaps better than it has ever been in just about every way... except for the physical intimacy part."
From my perspective, I'd give it about a 5 out of 10. We are connecting very well on alot of levels and having some good times and working well together as a "partnership" and as parents of our kids. However, the physical/romantic intimacy is a big part of it for me... As is the lost trust from the affair. And in my mind they are somewhat inextricably intertwined. My W and I had a lot of problems and had grown apart on just about every level, but the lack of physical and romantic connection was probably the biggest problem and something that could have been one of the biggest assets to the MR had we focused more on "us". Certainly had we still "had" that, then I strongly doubt that my W would have strayed, and I venture to say that she would agree on that point. As long as we don't "have" that, I do not know if I would ever be able to surrender myself to trust her again. And in fact, in tears a couple of months back (and this was before the final "blow up" where I discovered she was still contacting OM on burner phone) she told me "I'm being faithful (she thought just "talking" to OM was acceptable and not "cheating") but I know I won't be forever if we don't have that kind of relationship" (romantic/intimate). So, yeah, we do NOT have that kind of relationship right now and so I DO still worry a bit, though not at DefCon One levels like I had been doing for so long.
Also, unlike W, I would NOT say "better than it's ever been" even notwithstanding lack of intimacy/romance-- I have very fond memories of how things were between us when we were dating/engaged and then newlyweds. And not just in terms of the physicality and romance, but also that it was just a fun, carefree, sort of time with the person I loved and loved being with more than anyone in the world. Pretty much in the brief span of time before children and before I became ill.
Quote:
How invested do you think she is about making this marriage better with YOU?
She is invested, but to what degree is difficult to say. Sometimes she seems very eager to do the work that MC says needs to be done, but other times not so much. She certainly has not followed up with MC on an IC basis... as recommended by MC. Now, her work schedule HAS been complete Hell and has gotten worse as a couple of people have left (because it was such hell), but she DID make the time/sacrifice to take an entire day off and drive 2.5 hours out of town with me to see MC... which I would say was probably the high water mark for us so far post-BD. We really opened up a lot, had some very productive sessions, and then were very close for the next week or so and she seemed extremely interested in doing the work/homework. Past week and half, though, I'd say, seems like she has pulled back a bit on that, although she did request for me to get that book for her this past Saturday, and then yesterday she suggested we go out together with another married couple we know, which is something different she hasn't wanted to do recently (either going out solo with me or possibly meeting up with me when I am out with my friends or else going out with her single friends from work-- once-- or with her bff-- also once.)
So I really think Sandi is right. She probably hasn't gotten OM completely out of her head, yet (It's been about three months) and has had a couple of reminders in recent weeks which have affected her. My big question WRT, then, is how much to "nudge" her in the direction of doing the work and seeing the MC (which we should probably be doing at least every other week and certainly at least once a month). Those sessions are unquestionably helpful... but I don't want to push too hard, there, either.
My other big question is how to break the ice on the physical touch aspect. MWD seems to indicate (and my MC seems to agree) that the "Just Do It" approach is the way to go, but... it is definitely a bit weird/awkward, especially for her, I think.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Crap. Anybody know what it means if calls completed to a phone are not showing up on that phone's phone records? I am assuming that it means that the phone is using voip or some other non-traceable protocol.
Just checking the phone records on a lark today, and over the past few days my wife's number shows almost no incoming calls... not even ones I have made to her phone from my phone and that are showing up as completed calls under my phones' records...
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
Call records can be manually deleted from the device, but the call history will be on the billing record. Most likely, she's deleting the call history manually; no special hacks are required.
Call records can be manually deleted from the device, but the call history will be on the billing record. Most likely, she's deleting the call history manually; no special hacks are required.
That's what im talking about. They're not even showing up on the billing record. Paid my bill online last night and decided I'd look over the records while I was at it. Would assume it was just calls taken on wifi at her office, but two or three calls were in her car, Where there's no wifi and, I would think, no way to make/receive calls without a chargeable/recordable cell service call occurring. Weird.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
That's what im talking about. They're not even showing up on the billing record. Paid my bill online last night and decided I'd look over the records while I was at it. Would assume it was just calls taken on wifi at her office, but two or three calls were in her car, Where there's no wifi and, I would think, no way to make/receive calls without a chargeable/recordable cell service call occurring. Weird.
I've never seen a completed call not get captured in the billing statement.. The only thing I can think of is it might be possible to "call forward" calls to another phone and not have them show on the bill, but I don't know if that would be the case. I've never tried it.
M - 9 1/2 years 5/5/16 - Bomb drop - 3 week EA 10/31/16 - We sold house 01/10/18 - D Finalized
If the calls are not showing up, you can call the telecom company and talk to the Tech department and have them go over the bill manually. You can also give them the number you are expecting to see and they can do a search for that specific number. They can give, time, date, and duration of the call. I have At&t and I would chat and call to get specifics and information about calls that weren't showing up on the bill.
You have to request the tech department specifically, if you tried to do this with a normal call rep, they want get you what you are looking for. These calls take a while as well, just some things to help out.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
Crap. Anybody know what it means if calls completed to a phone are not showing up on that phone's phone records? I am assuming that it means that the phone is using voip or some other non-traceable protocol.
That's the problem with snooping, it just drives them ever-deeper under cover!
