Chapter 5 - Turning over to a new page

[Rose888]

Sandi,

This is how I see the situation. Yes he may have went from doormat to extreme. But what is the suggestion for a middle ground? Often times the defensiveness comes in, because the forum tells us your letting her eat cake. And the next moment your trying to control her. But no one ever just helps you come up with actual ideas. Bigybiz is trying to come up with something that works for him. Because the encouragement on this forum is to focus on your happiness. And that is what he clearly is doing. The solution is for his W to stop passing up opportunities with her children to chase OM. Giving into her complaints is spoiling her to be honest IMHO.

WWs are not always wrong. Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Being able to consider feedback from people you don't like on its own merits, not rejecting it because you object to the person, is a sign of strength.

[bigybiz]

Rose888

The OM is at the conferences too. Her EA was at the same conference (in 2015).

[bigybiz]

Sandi2:

Thank you for the compliment! I've often felt I've "reinvented myself" it's nice of you to say that. I know in the past you've felt I've gone from one extreme to the other. I'm sure I got very defensive too. Yes, punishment and control obviously still is an issue between us.

D21 moved in 4 weeks ago it's great. It's so good to have her. I'm guessing she thinks I'm providing a stable enough environment for her brothers that it's safe for her too. The newly renovated basement is a perk. So now S11 could be watched by D21 in their family home. My hunch is she would be smart enough not to get in the middle.

For the 16 months that we have been separated W goes through phases where she draws close, participates in all the family activities, then retreats. We just found out about the OM - my guess is it's been a secret for a while.

Less and less has she been hanging out here. That being said, she said she's coming on Monday to carve pumpkins and Tuesday for Halloween as S11 would rather trick or treat with a friend at home then where her apt is.

Again, this has always been a tension. MWD books & videos and my coach said invite her to family events, try and engage her in the home, etc. Where most on the board are in favour of detaching and not engaging.

Yes, I live in the house, with all our kids, dogs, etc. She continues to remind me that she has done this so the kids can have stability, etc. It sounds very martyrish.

So - I'll try and dial back the control,punishment. Not sure how? I'd like to try something new - a game changer. Yes, I'm not detached and yes I'm focused on her more than me. On the other hand, I've got lots of runs on the board.

After months of surface level convos we had some R talk yesterday. I was needy, etc. Coming to grips with the OM, I guess. I need a game changer.

[bigybiz]

Rose88:

I would agree that if she had to work late or go take care of a family member then not seeing your kids is a consequence. To choose to go to her "orgies" and spend her $ on herself instead of the kids - that's not a sacrifice, it's a choice.

Again, where are my kids in all this. All she talks about is her new life, friends, etc. I don't ask, but should I? How does S11 feel that she is going off to Washington, Las Vegas, Quebec City instead of spending time with him? What do my kids get when she ditches them to go out with her friends?

I'm sure she feels that she spent years, cooking, cleaning, wiping butts, so it's her turn now.

Who's really being punished?

None of them are willing to tell me honestly and I try not to ask, as to not look too needy.

[bigybiz]

Tread:
Thanks for the kind words. I think this works for my kids and I. I'm not sure how to find the delicate balance where she feel's relaxed and I don't feel like a sucker.

[sandi2]

Less and less has she been hanging out here. That being said, she said she's coming on Monday to carve pumpkins and Tuesday for Halloween as S11 would rather trick or treat with a friend at home then where her apt is.

So inviting her to engage in family activities has not been successful. Since OM has been established, maybe it's time to cut back on acting like one big happy family.

Would you answer the other questions, please? Thanks.

[bigybiz]

Sorry I thought I did answer the questions, which were they?

D21 would watch S11 at our house.

How would I feel if she found someone else, I'm guessing it would have to be someone we both approve of i.e. Neighbor, etc

Yes, one big happy family has run it's course

Am I punishing and controlling - I guess

Did I miss anything?

What's my next step?

[AnotherStander]

Yes, using your chart - it would seem that we are using item 3. The regular requests are not because of work, or taking care of elderly parents, or her illness, etc. Things I would call unavoidable. Our Sit is W asks for "switch" so she can go to conferences, vacations and visit the OM. I would call them recreational.

What does it matter what the reasons are? She's not your W anymore. Maybe on paper, but not spiritually which is really all that matters. Her life is her own and yours is your own. Her reasons for swapping days are not your business and vice versa. If you have a problem with her wanting to swap days all the time then fine, just give her a clearly stated boundary such as:

"W, I have plans during the times I don't have the kids and plans for the times I do have the kids, and swapping days all the time is a huge inconvenience for me. If you want me to take the kids during your visitation that is fine, but please understand I can not swap a day with you as I already have that time planned out. So I can do it, but you'll be giving up that day with them."

Get her to agree to those terms. After that if she wants you to watch the kids and starts griping about not getting a day back, just remind her of the boundary that she agreed to.

My XW and I have been at this for 5 years now. At this point two of the kids are grown and moved out so only the youngest is still going back and forth. We've maintained a lot of flexibility with each other over the years, I'd say that it's mostly been her needing me to watch them but sometimes I have a last minute trip and need her to help out. We typically do not swap days, we "give up" the day or days but in the long run we've done it enough back and forth that it more or less evened out. If your W is doing it every week then I could see it being a problem though, it's hard to make plans if the schedule is ALWAYS in flux.

By the way, when my XW has ever wanted me to watch the kids I didn't ask why. I didn't know and didn't care.

[bigybiz]

Another stander:

Thanks for your "boundary" notice. It's perfect I'm going to use it.

The discussion came up around her reason relates to me being "punishing". If she needed me to help because she was in a car accident that's unexpected etc. If she is making plans for her recreation time, she should expect a cost like she would for a airplane ticket, hotel, etc.

[Rose888]

The expected cost is not being with the kids on the days of the trip, and possibly paying money if a caregiver needs to be hired.

You say you are worried abo the kids and feel they lose out when your W doesn't spend her allotted time with them. But then you charge her extra days. So the kids lose one day with their mom because of her choice and then another day with her because of your choice.

So your own actions increase the harm to the kids that you are angry with your wife for inflicting.

I get it. She's not being a very good mom right now, and it hurts that your kids are hurting. But you can't make her be a good mom.

And I think your anger is making it hard to tell what's legitimately bad behavior (no-shows) and what is typical for even good parents (being away from kids because of work conferences).