Good start, Woody! When you were up in newcomers, did you see JJ's thread about goal setting? He's got some terrific ones that might help you put some down on paper.
Goals ARE different than chores. Chores are something you do because they have to be done. Goals are something you do because they are worthwhile and give you value.
My #1 goal for a really long time was to rid myself of the anger I felt. I had to list specific ways I was going to do that: a) By reading books that discuss this topic; b) By being honest with myself as to its source--imagine my surprise after discovering that my anger was mostly self directed!; c) By engaging in prayer--specifically asking for assistance when I felt weak; d) Identifying more appropriate responses to the circumstances when I felt angry; e) Logging my results over time.
Got it?
If you're anything like Mr. Wonderful, finishing the basement provides all sorts of opportunities for catharsis. You are alone with yourself and thinking as you are doing something. You enjoy doing it (I assume?). You get the advantage of seeing tangible progress at the end of every task.
Since you mentioned being a good father (and I believe that this is a value you hold dear), how do you identify the things it takes to be a good dad? I happened to adore my dad because he was so present with me. He was a policeman and had weird hours, so I could have fun with him around the clock, depending on his shifts.
He jump roped with me and my sister (he actually taught us how to double dutch), he read with us, he took us and our friends places--like the zoo or the movies, and best of all? He made time to listen to us at the end of every day.
What is Woody's version of being a great dad? I'll bet just making this list brings you immense joy. Focus on that, friend.
Let's see... you sound a little unsure of your W's accusation that you started doing your own thing. In girl speak, this sounds like "Woody, I want you present with me, but you find other things to do when I want to be with you."
Is this the case?
Before we go any further, have you read the 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman? You'll find his stuff in the religious section of the book store... It is a wonderful book that illustrates how we each express and believe we receive love.
I'm a person who feels loved when I get words of affirmation. Well, Mr. Wonderful speaks his love by doing acts of service... things like mowing the lawn, cleaning out gutters, taking care of the hot tub, putting up moulding in the dining room. He felt I didn't love him enough because I wasn't expressing my sincere gratitude for all the chores he did for me! While I was feeling unloved because he hardly ever told me I looked pretty or that he thought I had done a good job with something or praised me for a choice I made. No wonder we were both stuck!
Did she feel trapped because she was feeling resentful that her needs were not being met? This one hit awfully close to home for me. I felt trapped. And I also felt angry about "being stuck" with the kids when he did his golf weekends with the guys, or took a day off from work to go fishing or found himself busy when I wanted to do something.
The reality of this is that I wasn't taking care of myself, so I blamed him and let the resentment seep into every aspect of our marriage. Fortunately, I figured this out. But if he had been enlightened 5 years ago and said to me, "Bets, I get to do so much on my own and I really appreciate you being there for me. Would you like to take a weekend and head out somewhere to hang out with friends?" I can honestly say it would have gone a long way with me.
Someone has to break free of the blame and resentment game. Since you're here, it might as well be you who goes first!
The final one... no passion. Yes, I am guilty as charged for saying the same thing for years. No passion because I was not feeling as though I was his #1 priority. The lower I ranked on the totem pole, the more disenchanted I became with my own M.
The best part is that you can change all of these things with some effort and a whole lot of patience.
First, though, you must give her space. Show her you really understand her needs and show her how patient you are. SHOW her that she is your #1 priority... by not complaining about how unfair the sitch is (and we know this is true, so come here for some validation on that score). Don't try to get her to see things from your POV. Don't waste another minute trying to figure out how she got there.
Work on being the man she really can't live without. Figure out her love language and start speaking it. Don't do too much too soon, but when the opportunity arises to speak it, go for it.
Hopefully, this makes sense?
Great feedback, so keep up the good work! As our MC told me last year, "become the solution detective".
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Yes I have read the 5 Love Languages, only thing I have to figure out which one she is.
She seems happy when I give her flowers and gifts, but on the other hand if I give compliments they get shrugged off. Example, She asked if she needed to look presentable for dinner, I asked her what she meant and she replied she hadn't got dressedup, was still in her comfy clothes, I said it didn't matter she was beautiful either way, I got no repsonse. I'm thinking her LL may be QT, but I thought I was giving that to her on a daily basis. I wasn't one who went out with the boys on the weekends, or at night, I was more than content being at home with her, her presence made me feel confident. Maybe it was like you say, we didn't do anything just us two very often other than hang out on the couch. That may have been the beginning of the end. The reasons I mentioned for her leaving are things I picked up on from previous conversations and she has yet to state why she left just that she couldn't live with me anymore.
Friends of mine tell me that she will find someone else and for me to finalize it and move on with my life. Personally I feel as though I have, just without her. Mind you nights are long and lonely some times, but I can usually find something to do to keep my mind occupied till bed.
I mentioned to my friend that I had laid it out to her that I would like to work things out, she thinks I'm crazy, saying stuff like she's had plenty of time to think things over, get her to sign the Agreement and move on. As she has yet to sign a seperation agreement I got drawn up first week of March.
My friend also suggests she is very depressed and really needs help, what does anyone think of that conclusion? i have thought about and I can definitely see some signs of depression, but not full blown.
My WAW was saying that the only thing she can focus on is being the best mom for our D right now, when I ask my D what they've done this week, she replies nothing. How's that being the best mom out there?
She continues on with OM, not that they each other all that often anymore, but I know her feelings for him are still strong. And they do keep in touch and do things occasionally together. I keep going through a question in my mind, why would she give him another chance and not me? I know that sounds crazy but I keep thinking about it.
My friend also made a comment this evening, that she is just playing me waiting or something better to come along, that hurt lots. I really hope that is not the case.
I guess one of my goals would be similar to your Betsey, try to erase the anger I have inside. I have started a journal to let it out and hopefully with this bb and my journal I can keep my negative comments to a minimum with her.
That part I know she does not like. I guess its going to be full steam ahead with trying to the man she can't live without. But again, I am lost as to what I need to do to acheive this goal.
I am going to try and figure out her LL to see if using that to its advantage can help, but first steps first I need to figure out what her LL is before I can act on it.
I always told her I loved her, always complimented her on the way she looked and smelled. Like I said I need to think this one over very hard, but for the time being space is what she wants, space is what she'll get. Like you said Betsey, if she said she wants it, I need to respect that request. Please reply with more knowledge, you really got my wheels turning, and its better here it seems than with trying to figure her out. I will try to make her my number one priority, but how do i do this while giving her space, kinda a catch 22 don't you think???
When I picked our D for the weekend, she asks if I have plans on Sunday night. Immediatley I say yes, the reason for my response is this. She works the bar scene and doesn't get to go that often now as she has minmal people she knows and even less that will babysit for her. When we were together I no quarrels with her having nights out with the girls during the week as she worked evry weekend, at night. This turned into her finding OM and we know where has lead. So when she asks if I have plans on any given night the answer is always yes. My reasons are that I facilitated that lifestyle style for her before and look where it got me, and I am not willign to give her that freedom now. Am I wrong to think this way? She never tells me what the plans are she wishes to have, just asks if I have plans, but I know what the plans are, so again, Am I wrong to think this way???
That is my question for today, any insight out there???
Well I'm back, I've read DR again, and I'm finding things in there I missed. ALthough I read the Infidelity part like 3 more times. At times it feels hopeless, as now WAW seems to be spending more time with OM. Last 2 nights for sure. I know I have to let it slide and be upbeat and happy. Do I ask her how her nights were with OM? Or do I leave it alone and keep on as I have been. Oh and again on Sunday we got into a fight, she told to get out of her house she didn't want me there, she got into it with me over stress over money again, I said to sign the Agreement we had and she would have lots, was that wrong?
But I will say this, I am going to practice being more distant to see if she initiates anything. The problem I have with this, is if I don't hear anything in a few days I start getting those bad thoughts in my head. The ones that says she really prefers it this way. But as you say betsey I need to respect her decision that she wants time alone, which I sometimes think is a line, as she can usually find something to do with OM. I really hope I'm not wasting my time with her. These are the things I keep thinking about, I try to fill my days with activities to rid my mind of these thoughts, but as soon as I slow down, they all surface again, and I get edgy. But I will keep trying to get them out of me head, resist the urge to call and contact her to see if she will inititate, I'm also starting to think I don't give things enought ime as DR says. I'm almost starting fresh here, is that a bad idea???
I thinking hard about it, just forgetting everything I've done, even inthe lst little while, as it seems to be pushing her towards OM more. Which is of course natural reaction, seeing me more and knowing she doesn't want it, will probably make her feel liek she prefers OM.
I will let it be and see what happens. Can anyone answer some of these questions for me please, some guidance is needed, I feel myself spiralling out of control again...
I have had DSL issues and my posts have been sporadic....
I think you're on the right track. Acting AS IF is a great way to let the air out of the tires here. From what you posted, it sounds like a good amount of her energy is derived from trying to get you to accept this.
So what will she be doing instead when she realizes that you're no longer fighting her?
I'll reiterate my beliefs here on being distant vs. detaching. I'll start by asking you a question: Was one of her chief complaints that you ignored her? I think you were the one who posted that it was. If so, being distant should have a different slant... showing her you care by not ignoring her, yet not pursuing. A tricky line to walk, for sure.
Detaching just means that you tell yourself (constantly in my case) that you will be just fine, no matter what ultimately happens. That attitude is reflected outward and I promise you that it is a confidence builder.
Starting with a beginner's mind is a GREAT idea. I'm all for new beginnings. Do you have any goals you can share so that you can journal your progress? They are GREAT ways to boost your self image and underline your worth. Face it, Woody, you're a great guy.
I think so, anyway.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I do have some goals written down and here they are...
Short term goals: 1) To rid myself of the anger I have which is internal. 2)Being the best dad I can for our daughter, in that I mean spending QT with her, listening to everything she has to say, playing whatever it may be with her. 3) Be more active physically. 4) Be moreloving and supporting of my wife, but not pursuing.
Long Term Goals: 1) To have my wife back by November 2) WOrk on my issues she had with me 3) Get a new outlook on life, wether it be with or without her, as long as know I've tried my best.
I have another question, should I still wear my wedding band on the left hand. My wife does not wear hers at all, I have gone from wearing it on the right hand back to the left when she is in my presence. Should I keep on doing that, or simply take it off?
Three things come to mind when I read your story. 1. What did you do before? What are your 180s? You keep talking about pursuing, being nice, sending flowers, etc. If these are 180s, perhaps occasionally it would be nice. Hey, why not, give her the romance she obviously isn't getting with OM. 2. Are you paying child support at all? You should be paying something for your daughter, even if just food and 1/2 medical or something. 3. Good that you stated your goal. I believe you must at least once, and usually no more than once, state your goal. You want to work on the M. Good job there. Now she knows, so don't bring it up again for a while.
Betsey is absoultely correct. Validate her but don't agree with her (unless you do). Just keep telling her you know she is going through some tough things. Tell her you respect her for taking on these challenges and you see how strong she is for going through it. Hey, who dislikes someone who tells them they are fantastic? Still, you haven't agreed with her choices, and you haven't offered help. Just emotional support.
And awesome suggestion to add mystery. Go out with friends, work on yourself. Take a class, read a book, learn something new. Take up a new hobby with new friends. Get out and do something so that you are not there when she does call.
The wedding band is your feelings on the R, it's personal. Do what you feel comfortable with. I would take it off for the mystery of it.
But then again, I have been known to do some things to make H jealous, which luckily worked out for me. (Could have backfired.)
I think you're doing great. Just need to get a life outside and make her think. Create some mystery. Make her think twice about your availability. Good luck, keep us posted!
Thanks Rotty, good advice. I will answer some of your questions. First Am I paying support, nothing in terms of monthly payments, but I do pay full medical, dental and life insurance for her. As for 180's I'm gona have to think of those a little harder, to try and pin point where I have done 180's since this sitch happened.
As for creating some mystery, I;m full steam ahead on that one, I'm going to respect her call for space, and I am now letting my machine pick up all my phone calls, just so she doesn't think I'm waiting by the phone.
I've made plans already for this weekend with friends, and do try to make plans regularly to get out of the house so to speak. Again her not knowing my whereabouts. But the last few weeks she seemed interested in knowing where I was and who I was with, lately not so interested. Don't know how to read that one.
Her mother is coming down to visit fromout of town this weekend, first time she has seen her since the marriage fell apart. Don't know what to expect from the visit, all I know is that I won't se my daughtert his weekend because of it, as she will spend the weekend with grammy. Gives me a weekend to do something for myself though.
SOme comments WAW made recently have me thinking I'm fighting a losing battle though. For instance she keeps talking about the winter and her still living there, with that I feel that she is talking about staying away for a long time, probably normal thinking under the circumstances, but still has me wondering if I'm not doing all this for nothing.
But new stones are being unturned, I have reverted to starting fresh, letting the WAW make contact, not pursuing or asking any questions. Going to let her initiate all conversations even during drop off and pick up of our daughter. Although I did get a thank you the other day when she came over, told her she looked nice, and she replied, that hasn't happened in a while, but then she spends the evening with OM. So its almost as if I can't win.
Speaking of asif, I am going to begin acting as if, not get too emotional about any baby steps I may see and so on. Hope I am on the right track with this, as the last thing I want to do is push her further away, as it seemed I have been in reent weeks after she came back to me from the abyss.
Keep up the good work friends and your input is always valuable and really does help me put things into perspective...
Well, Wood, I personally think you should pay child support to her. Just something - split the cost of food for your DD. Just so you know, I don't have kids of my own, my H has three from a prior M, and yes, I still believe she should get some of our money each week. If you are giving her nothing, she has something to complain about. And if she ever gets smart and gets a lawyer, you will not be seen in the best light.
That being said, the rest sounds great. Go ahead, get out and do something. Have fun this weekend.
Your goals may need some work, however. Have you read DB? I don't remember reading that you did. Maybe my mind is slipping...
Goals have to be action oriented and not long term. Try these for goals... they were some of mine in the beginning of DBing.
1. H will look at me 2. H will smile at a joke I tell 3. H will give me a hug again
See how they are actions and easily achievable in a short period of time. (My DB coach told me that it should be 2 weeks max) Then, when those were met, I changed them.
1. H will ML with me again 2. H will want to spend more time with me 3. H will stop talking about D.
OK, those are met My new ones, which so far have been unsuccessful are 1. H will hold my hand again 2. H will kiss me again 3. H will say ILY again.
So, my goals haven't been met and it's been over a month. What does that tell me? I bit off more than I can chew. I will now go back and make new goals, more easily obtainable ones.
Try those on and see if you can come up with more goals. Basically, goals should be baby steps you want to see. When you achieve them, you know you are on the right track. Then you look for more baby steps and make them your goals. It also helps in your solutions journal to have it written down so you know what worked and you can repeat that behavior.
Thnaks for the goal orientated post Rotty, most appreciated. As for the child support thing, she was the one who said she didn;t want any, I was willing but she did not want, that simple. I have said to her on numerous occasions that i would help for anything at all that may involve our d, be it child care, clothes, food or anything that involves her.
The goals you posted are great to see, I will take notice and create some of my own, most be probably look similar to yours. I know though that I am far far away from ML and all that jazz with my W, I know for a fact, hugs are even hard to come by, she is not very affectionate that way once she has made up her mind she wants nothing to do with me, which is the case now.
I have been playing with the mystery part of things, for instance yesterday I got home form playing some golf and had 2 messages from her asking where I was, not for anything utturly important, just what time she could drop our daughter off, but she called twice and I was not around. Small at first then I will move onto bigger nad better things.
Goals I have kinda been toying with are the following:
1) W will invite for supper 2) W will initiate conversation with me, either on the phone or in person 3) W will just drop by for a visit, which has yet to do since seperating.
So those are my short term goals, for now, see if I can make them happen in the following 2 weeks. If not, try to focus on more friendly goals.
I have yet to read DB, but have read 5 LL and DR recently. I may pick up DB on the weekend should the opportunity arise.
So no real new news for now as I have let the ball fall in her court, see if she will initiate anything at all, if not, we'll take it from there. I will keep posting any uppdates should they arise, or any change in attitude by me, as I am always thinking, could be a bad makes me want to try too hard some days, but I am working on controlling that emotion with the stop sign technique.
Keep up the good advice everyone, it is worth more than anything in my life right now.
Betsey