Limerence and My Situation 5

[Zues126]

Darn it all Ginger, you dragged me back into posting again. Now I'm following this thread and here I go again...

In my mind there are two separate issues. One is the specific issue at hand, seeing OM or not. The other is how you assert your boundaries and respond to assault. The funny part is that even though the argument was over the first issue, to me the second seems much more important.

In my mind until a divorce is FINAL she is committing adultery. You can spin it any way you want to spin it, but that is what it is. Separated, the marriage was dead, we haven't been like a married couple for years, I separated with you in my mind a long time ago, yadda yadda yadda. You're married. She's cheating. That's it.

Now it's not your job to punish her for it, or throw it in her face, or act holier than thou...but it IS your job to parent your children. I struggled with this at first, how do you teach your kids what you believe without criticizing their mother? I came up with the answer that worked for me. I explain that different people believe different things. For example:

"Kids, different people have different beliefs. I am not proclaiming what I believe to be right, nor what someone else believes to be wrong. Is that clear? What I *AM* doing is sharing with you what I believe, so as you grow older and have to decide what you believe you have been given some examples to work from. What I believe is that marriage is a life long commitment, period. And what I believe is that when you are married you don't get involved with someone else. Does that make sense?"

That's how I handle it. I've had other talks where I explain more about my beliefs, but that is always how I frame it.

As far as when you meet OM, totally up to you. Reasonable, unreasonable, I don't care. It's your boundary, I respect it. Why doesn't she? That's not the real issue. So back to the real issue. Lack of respect for your boundaries and how you respond.

OK, I get why she's angry. Things aren't working the way she wants them to. She wants you chasing after her doing whatever she wants so she feels pursued and can keep being the good guy and making you the villain that was too abusive to remain married to. She wants to avoid consequences. All of that is true.

But she also wants to be in control, and she wants to hurt you because she blames you for her pain, and she wants attention from you because she is still emotionally entangled.

Is this mind reading? Not according to my DB coach. My DB coach taught me something that was so amazing I will never forget it. I'll dig up the quote from last time I posted this:


It turns out that you can indeed discover their motivations when their behavior is specifically aimed towards you. There is a chart that I was given by my DB coach. Based on how YOU feel when they act a certain way, you can determine THEIR motivations. How is this possible? It's because they know you intimately, they know your buttons and what each one does, so when they are doing things strictly for your benefit you actually can tell what they are trying to accomplish. Here is the chart:

You feel: Irritated
Their motivation: Attention

You feel: Insufficient
They feel: Insufficient, desire to prove their value

You feel: Powerless
They feel: Powerless, desire to gain control

You feel: Hurt and/or Angry
They feel: Vindictive, desire for revenge

Couple of examples. I took my kids on a trip once early on. When I dropped the kids off I was only there for 30 seconds, yet she managed to tell the kids about all the things she did over the weekend at a mixed bonfire. It was clear she was aiming this to me. My DB coach asked me how it made me feel. It came down to I felt insufficient, like I was left out, she didn't need me to have a good time. My DB coach pointed out that she probably felt insufficient as I just had a great weekend with my family without her. Another example would be when she took back Sunday nights from me and said she wouldn't allow that again until after court. I felt quite powerless and a bit angry. It was clear her motivation was that she felt she was losing control, and possibly wanted to hurt me as well.


My guess is that you feel hurt/angry, and like you're fighting a power struggle and maybe a bit irritated. So to me this translates to revenge, punishment, desire for control, and a desire for attention. It's amazing how this works.

Now that you know the game, you can choose how to respond. Personally I am one that doesn't want to play. [u]So I would want to show no pain, no irritation, not engage in a control battle, and not pay much attention.[/u]

Instead I'd simply say "I've made my position clear." If there is something more, great. If not I wouldn't explain that if she can't respect my boundary I'd end the conversation, I'd just do it. I'd hang up, walk away, whatever. But I'd do it like I just answered a wrong number.

If you don't pour gas on the fire, the fire will burn itself out.

My XW has been 12 forms of crazy the last few years (read my old threads sometime if you are home sick and have enough dayquil in you to keep you numb), but the crazy is burning out. Why? Because I don't play. No, she didn't come back, but she at least had the opportunity to see what her life was without me, because I wasn't playing these emotional games.

Finally- Lcause, yes, an affair is 100% wrong 100% of the time. I agree with you on this point and appreciate you making it.

The point the others are making is that while certain behavior of others is clearly wrong, at some point that is them and we have to look in the mirror and work on ourselves. If we like what we see, great. If we don't like what we see, then take action to make it better. Oftentimes when we are suffering from pain due to fall out from our actions it is the best time to make changes. And while the affair isn't a consequence of our action, it is a horrible choice that our spouse made, the deteriorated state of our marriage was a situation that we can take some accountability for. When suffering the loss of a M it feels good to know that we identified some of our weaknesses, made improvements, did everything we could to save our M, and did everything we could to prepare for it to be stronger should it be saved, and to prepare for a brighter future with or without the M. This is all.

As for the comment about "cheating is bad, you should divorce first", there are those of us on this forum that think that divorce itself is bad and that ending a marriage and breaking up a family so you can chase the illusion of personal happiness you think is out there is just as destructive and despicable as cheating. None of this "Except for abuse and addition" stuff which can be stretched to apply to 100% of marriages, but simply not ok unless someone is in evident danger. Like taking a human life- it must be done in SELF DEFENSE. Same for me and marriage. End the marriage in self defense. Divorcing because you spin the other person as emotionally abusive for neglecting your needs is like killing someone in self defense because they hurt your feelings. NOT OK. This is not a popular camp I'm in, but here I remain nonetheless. Ginger, we've beat this to death, but for the others I wanted to restate my views. I have more I could say on this topic so don't tempt me please