Moving Forward - Continued

[25yearsmlc]

thank you for posting. IT's really important.


[quote=Benito]I didnt care what she was doing. She was gone. This was my life now and i had sort it out.

The problem with most LBS is that they change to get the WAS back

yes amen. Tactics, not change.


and are constantly looking for the WAS reaction.

YES (and push their spouses away and over think everything) and they call it "monitoring" but they do it daily.

I fear that what they really want is NOT self improvement or growth, so much as for the WAS to change their mind and go back to what was, before.


If they dont show the desired reation they throw their toys out the pram and go back to square one.

YES! Some will say "it's hopeless" so they can throw their hands up. But to avoid the one upside to this ordeal (personal growth, spiritual development, etc)

is to stay stuck in a bad place.

[25yearsmlc]

I understand why you got rid of the old threads, but it's sad to see the valuable resource of what can happen when you actually invest in the program go away.

In any case, keep on keeping on and I wish you good luck moving forward.

Im so glad you commented.. along with AnotherStander you are the reason I am here today. Seriously I cant thank you enough

A lot of very old threads were removed in the "Great DB Purge".

Including mine. TBH, my super old threads are very painful for ME to read.

Still, it's important for me to realize how much time I spent going in circles asking "WHY/HOW?" instead of keeping the focus on me.

And for me not to return to that loop of thinking.

Plus a lot of newbies do the looping "why" thing, and we urge them to stop. They maybe think I'm somehow able to just skip over that phase but I was not able to.

In reality, I spent years asking and looping, to no avail. Years I won't get back, so I just want them to save their energy for what they really can do.

Your updated posts help too.

Benito, I hope you'll dig a few old ones up for the comparisons NOT b/c you looked foolish

but to show how you worked through it. Or still are. And they may help you someday to remember the progress you made.

Good on you

[Painful]

THE MAIN REAL REASON B's W is willing to go on dates, sleep over, going to in-laws, think and talk about their future together, etc so quickly and openly is because THERE IS NO OM in the picture.

Yes and no.

I mean, Ive never seen a WS come back to actually work on the relationship while the third person is still involved. In other words, the WS isnt going to come back until the relationship with the AP ends one way or another. So yes, it's certainly going to be easier to reconcile if theres no AP, because those relationships often last several months.

But I disagree with you that the lack of an AP is THE REAL REASON that Benito is working towards piecing with his W. THE REAL REASON is that he followed the program and it got him the results that he was looking for. Your comments completely dismiss the work that Benito put in and suggest that without an AP, it is easy to repair the relationship. It's easiER for sure....but I dont believe thats the REAL REASON she returned.

Sounds like she possibly wasn't even a true WAW; just wanted to teach him a lesson and turn him around which he did very well.

Wow. Like I said in my post before, it's frustrating that the thoughts of Benito when he first joined are now redacted so that people like you dont chalk this up as a random chance event where a WAW decided not to walk away. She chose to return because of hard work done by the LBS to reflect and evolve. Dismissing that as commonplace is extremely rude, in my opinion.

I bet 80-90% of guys here would've been in a similar sitch if they had a W like B's instead of cold-hearted WWs whose main goal now is to try to build a new life with the "soulmate" "best friend" OM.

80 to 90%?!? If that were anywhere remotely close to true, there would be no book. I doubt MWD would even have a job. AP or not....it is hard work to completely retrain yourself in your thoughts and behaviors. I would say it is certainly more likely to reconcile when theres no AP, but even if there isnt, the success rate for reconciling once someone gets desperate enough to post here is insanely low.

Kaizen/Benito,

My apologies if it came across this way. My post was IN NO WAY aimed at dismissing the great work B has done on himself. I even stated that he turned around very well. I don't know his full story as there's no previous thread; I just read this one.

Again, the point of my post was NOT to diminish B's efforts but to reflect on our WWs compared to his W. His W is ready, willing and able to see the changes he was and still is making, appreciate those changes, and adjust her mindset to love and respect him again. My point was that even if most of the guys here did the same amount of work and self-reflection as B did, our WWs aren't in the mental state to see our work and changes, and they don't want to have a mental 180 and start "dating" us again so quickly.

80-90% - I didn't mean of all LBS but of the guys here on this board. Granted I'm not here long enough or often enough but it certainly seems like MOST of us (Benito is one of the rare lucky exceptions) are dealing with WWs, OMs, and separations due to their ongoing affairs. So it's for these guys here, me including, I think the possibility of R would be much higher and easier as you mentioned if there were no OM in our W's lives. You're right, 80-90% was probably an overkill in the heat of writing the post.

[lcause]

I agree with Painful. In my opinion it was a more hopeful situation from the beginning and based on the things mentioned she really wanted to see the change. Now this doesn't mean B didn't do any work, of course not. I admire what he did and he truly followed it through. But wanting to date and go eat in my opinion tells already a lot, and I think WASs are not the same. Some of them are truly done with the M and will not even consider regardless of the work done, especially if there is OM/OW. Maybe in the distant future (3-10 years, truly need to "find each other" again).

If truly doing the hard work would always get the WAS back, there would be more recons. It truly is doing the hard work and having the rare chance of having a WAS who is open to see the changes. I do believe a lot of us would be able to offer a better R but the WAS just isn't interested and believes it would be the same. Or they just lost the feelings. This has nothing to do with finding reasons to stop from changing, but stating the obvious. In order to recon, you need to have a WAS who wants the R.

[Matrix]

B- Great job of working on yourself, your mindset, your attitudes that seem to be bringing your WAW back into MR.

Not to rain on your parade - we're all happy for you - let's be honest: THE MAIN REAL REASON B's W is willing to go on dates, sleep over, going to in-laws, think and talk about their future together, etc so quickly and openly is because THERE IS NO OM in the picture.

His W is a WAW, not a WW. Sounds like she possibly wasn't even a true WAW; just wanted to teach him a lesson and turn him around which he did very well. I bet 80-90% of guys here would've been in a similar sitch if they had a W like B's instead of cold-hearted WWs whose main goal now is to try to build a new life with the "soulmate" "best friend" OM. Our WWs don't get the opportunity to see our changes b/c there're no dates or spending time together - they don't want or ask for that. More importantly they probably don't even GAF about any of our changes b/c the OM presently occupies their entire head space, fulfills their emotional and physical needs, and whispers about their dreamy future together.

Of course, it will most likely change for most of us with WWs when their reality catches up w them at some point but I don't think B's timeline of 6-7 months is even remotely realistic. I'm almost 9 months into it and my communication with WW is practically non-existent except a few min per week during kid exchanges.

We're told on this and other boards to not worry about OMs b/c they're not the root of the problem but a consequence. I personally don't; to me he doesn't exist and occupies zero head space BUT I think B's sitch and timeline proves to all of us how different it could be (or would be) if there was no d--khead OM.

I agree 1000% with Painful's post. Of course B did all of the work and made all of the changes. He did it and that is awesome! But, we have all been doing the work. Some better than other's. The only chance B had in his sitch was that his wife was not off planning a life with her new knight in shinning armor.

Yes, we all work and DB to become better people and be better in the future, with or without our spouse. That is the nature of DB. But, in order to actually have a chance to save our marriage and live a new awesome life with our spouse, there has to be NO AP around at all.

I could not agree more with Painful. He is exactly right. We all need to DB, but we all have ZERO chance with our spouse if there are 3 parties involved. Period, end of story.

Congrats, by the way B. You changed for the better and got a chance to save your marriage. Well done!!!

[Rose888]

Always a pleasure reading your updates Benni. It always gives me good needed perspective and staying focused on the true motivations for DBing.

I have a question.

Even though it was only an hour – things would happen, let’s say for example she spilled something while making a coffee. Previously before all this happened I would have rolled my eyes and made her feel like she was a naughty child. When it happened this time, I looked up, acknowledged what had happened and quietly carried on what I was doing.

If I remember, one of the issues you had identified in your sitch was that you would be quick to get annoyed and angry. Even small things like spilling coffee. Now, it is one thing to not react outwardly towards your W and show that you're cool about things now. But what did you do to come to a place of acceptance internally? Like you're not just chill with her about what happened outwardly, but you must also have done some internal work to not freak out about it without showing it to her face.

So, I am curious about the lasting internal changes that you have been working on. It's not just a change of mindset, but truly coming to realize that in the grand scheme of things, these incidents are small and not worthy of the reactions you were having previously.

I have some similar issues and I can fake being chill when such things happen, but internally, I am still WTF? lol. I want to be internally chill as well.

Two things that have helped me.

First I ask myself if the issue is worth ending my marriage over. (BD was a real perspective changer for me.)

Then I ask myself if I feel strongly enough about the issue that I am willing to take over the chore 100% for forever.

If I acknowledge that my answer to both questions is no, then it's hard to stay irritated. After all, if it were truly a big issue, I would answer yes to the second question.

This applies to cases where I am tempted to control how H does something. It's not how I approach communication issues or things like that.

[25yearsmlc]

Painful

first, I don't agree that nothing a LBH does makes a difference to a woman having an A

If I did, then what is the point of coming here or even lifting a finger to work on yourself?

Oh, I know, b/c working on yourself is the right thing to do, regardless of the wife's choices.

I don't defend affairs, but I think it's strange to put them all in the same category.

I know women who have had affairs and most ended it on their own, regardless of whether their h's knew.

Painful, try not to talk yourself into inaction and surrender. It's a fine line between that and trying to be at peace, I know. But be careful to watch for that.

[25yearsmlc]

-
If truly doing the hard work would always get the WAS back, there would be more recons.

there are no guarantees, even inside a marriage. That would be like saying the only time hard work & effort should be put in, is when there's a sure payoff.

[Benito]

I don't think there is any doubt that if the WAS is involved in a relationship with someone else then the chance of recon would be harder to achieve.

That being said; Is it not a fair to say that my W could of chosen to go down the path of finding someone else if I didnt;

1. Allow her to go on her own journey with any pressure
2. Do everything I could to address my own flaws and truly understand the reason she left?

She didnt go elsewhere because I provided an environment for her to reconsider her options. If I would of carried on the same way there is a chance a third party would be involved. So do you look at it as

1. The work put in lessened the opportunity for a third party to be involved..

or

2. I was just lucky that my W didnt find someone else?

I would guess that it was more option 1 than option 2.

98% of posters on here are not at the stage they need to be at in their own journey. Very few can say - 'I am confident in my own life and journey and I am happy with where I am in life'. Very very few. I personally think that plays a HUGE factor in the results rate here because despite what people say, alot are here simply to get a 'fix' to the problem.

But in reality that is the place that people need to get to in order to create an environment that would be primed for the WAS or any future partner to be attracted to.

Thats not to say that working on yourself and being the best DBer in the world will give you the results you want... However, what else in life is guaranteed? Nothing.. so to me thats a mute point.

We should all be here in order to reprogram ourselves into the lively, confident people we are all capable of being. Not to simply get the result of saving a marriage.

Some posters will come here asking why did this happen? what does this mean? - when in reality although it is good to understand certain things, they are looking in the wrong place. They want to solve the problem rather address themselves because deep down its the easier option.

While I fully accept that it IS a different scenario when there is a third party involved; I also think that certain posters (generally - NOT aimed at anyone in particular) like to use that fact, as a reason to not really fully commit to the process.

If they can truly look in the mirror and say they have done everything by the book and have the life they desire and are happy and they STILL arent having any joy then thats a different story. But lots of people who post (if they are honest with themselves) arent at that stage yet, so are not ready for a recon or another relationship at this stage anyway - so why would the WAS want to the leave the third party and come back to them?

The WAS wants nothing to do with this person. Thats why they walked away in the first place. They were not happy. To still not be a best person who you can be and then point fingers towards reasons as to why 'their' situation is different does seem like its taking the easier route to giving up.

Alot of the 'my situation is different' crew need to get address their own issues first before falling into that trap.

My journey IRRELEVANT of outcome or situation is NO different to anyone on here. The result might be different. But we shouldn't be here for the result, we are here to learn how to make the first steps on the journey to personal recovery what results come after that is anyone's guess.

Finally, in no way shape or form am I upset or insulted by anyone posts or opinions, we are all here to help each other out. I don't really need to be here, I just know that when I wanted to kill myself when I was losing my home and my Wife, I just wanted to read some successful stories to help keep my hopes up and to know I wasn't wasting my time, so want to offer that hope back into the board that has helped me so much throughout.

[Tread]

Benito,

The thing is that our WS didn't drop the bomb on us, then went out and found OM. We literally caught our spouses having an A, then they mentioned they wanted to leave us. By the time we knew there was an issue with the MR. The third party waa already in place. Which literally adds to the frustration. You seriously put in all the hard work. But that OM in the picture adds a whole different dynamic. Especially when you realize this guy isn't even doing 15 per cent of what you were doing as a bad H. That even further messes with your confidence.