WW in EA, NC w/OM(?), W's BFF interfering, part 7

[hoosjim]

I have to agree, based on some word by word accounts others have given. I think some H's overkill with verbal validation.

Actually, and interestingly, it was not the validation part that sparked her to say "It seems like you always know the right thing to say and that's kind of annoying." Instead, it was something relating to how I had acted, and, for the life of me I cant remember what it was, so thrown off was I by what she said which was both encouraging (I'm saying the right thing) and, possibly (and I'll reiterate here that it is quite possible she was mostly joking) a little discouraging. Whichever, point taken that I need to not go overboard with it. I AM careful not to "validate" concepts that are clearly contrary to a sound MR. In this same vein, we had a follow up conversation on Friday where I apologized for insinuating earlier in the week that she wasn't giving priority to the MC effort (I didn't mean to imply such, but I worded it poorly and that's how she took it, so...) and I ended up saying "see, I DON'T always know the right words." (She laughed.)

Yep, I did too. Plus, her BFF is adding her viewpoints into the mix.

Yes, interesting that the whole "supposed to" discussion came up just a few days after bff had called from bar and razzed her for doing what she was "supposed" to do. Previously, W had referred to that aspect of her personality/history/past as doing what was "EXPECTED" of her. Hadn't heard her use "supposed to" previously.

Well, that's up to you. Just beware b/c this thing is far from over. You think you'll know, but didn't she fool you in the past?

True, but her opportunities right now are EXTREMELY limited and basically consist of anything she can do electronically from her office... Which I cannot monitor anyway without EXTREME risk of getting caught (like slipping something into her handbag... an accessory she switches out and empties fairly frequently... I did it once months ago, but it was nerve-wracking as hell though I did find out OM had called her there). I effectively have monitoring I can check anytime anyway because several weeks ago she turned on her phone tracker utility that our cellular carrier provides free of charge. It's not perfect and doesn't constantly monitor and show you the subject's path of travel like a gps tracker (you have to request location on the carrier's website), but it's there kind of like a safety blanket (available for me if needed and something she has to think about that hopefully helps keep her honest.) At any rate, actively and aggressively monitoring her is just too hard, time consuming, and emotionally fatiguing to do 24/7. I am trying hard to maintain some detachment, and that gets more difficult when I am following her every move.

The things she is saying about MC doesn't sound good, and I wish it wasn't two weeks until the next session. However, she is feeling depressed and continue for a while yet.

She has brightened up a LITTLE the past couple of days. Her office's switchover to the new patient processing software went "live" and she was really scared it was going to be nightmare (she had worked close to 50 hour workweeks the past two weeks) but it ended up not being as bad as feared. She has been more open and jokey, and I have kept my distance a little at home and she has sought ME out more.

We did have a fairly fun weekend, though not as good as some others in the past month. Went out Friday night while S17 was at football game taking pictures for yearbook (I am encouraged that she hasn't asked to go to one of these-- OM's son is the team's QB). Went to a local pub to see a new band and watch baseball (her idea). Was nice but we didn't have the same sort of full-time "everything clicked" fun we had had the previous weekend. Saturday went to football game at my son's college and had a good visit with him. That was a little better-- W hung out some with our friends that came from "my side" of our respective lives (my college buddies and their wives)and she was really, really happy to see S18 about whom she has been worrying.

MC had wanted us to talk about some of the things in the workbook she gave us... some of the tougher things concerning the hurts we had caused each other. As I said before, W thinks these things have been talked to death and asks me specifically "well what do you want to talk about", to which I have so far kind of generally replied "I just feel like we're not over the hurtful things we did to each other-- I know I'm not and you've said you can tell that sometimes- and that we need to do some work to get past those. (When talking with bff on that last convo I mentioned earlier, she had told bff "well I am sure whatever he wants to talk about involves OM"). She also, obviously, on her side of the street, clearly needs to do her own work on "getting over" the OM... but I don't really feel like that is something I can say to her at this juncture, though the MC is very eager to get her into IC so she can work with her on understanding affair addictiveness, how the A and any lingering feelings for OM can ABSOLUTELY affect my W's ability to "see" anything romantic for us on the horizon, and to impress upon her the importance of maintaining strict no contact if she is serious about working on the MR. All completely true, IMO, But, as I said, not something I feel I can say to her right now.

We also need to talk about and work through her relationship with BFF. That's clearly a major issue-- her husband and her best friend are currently clearly at odds in her world, a situation that cannot possible persist if she is to be a healthy "her" and we are to have a healthy MR. During the MC session, we touched on it a little bit and I asked her to put herself in my shoes-- how would she feel if the situation were reversed and I wanted to go hang out with MY best friend who had helped enable my EMA? Wouldn't that bother her (and she granted that it would.) Her convo with bff, however, consisted of a lot of bff saying "well, he clearly thinks I was setting up hook-ups between you and OM, which I wasn't. that really pi$$es me off... he's obviously trying to drive a wedge between us." (For the record, I have never accused bff of "setting up hook ups" --thought that's sure as hell what it sounded like a couple of weeks ago when she was trying to entice my W out to the bar-- but what she did was certainly across the line and enabling of the affair: serving as liaison by phone/text, allowing my W to use her house as a "return address" on mailings to OM, going to social gatherings and bars with W to see OM, lying to me to cover up W's relationship with OM, etc.) The big thing, though, obviously, is that W used that relationship as cover... at some times when she was supposed to be with bff she would slip away for a while to go hang out with OM. The true "harm" of the relatiohship even if bff was not as proactive as I think she might have been, is that pretty much every time I know of that W saw OM, with one or maybe two exceptions, she was either with or supposed to be with bff.

Sorry, got off track there a little with bff, and it still bothers me quite bit, TBH. My MAIN concern right now, however, is to keep moving forward and to keep W engaged in doing so.

She says encouraging things from time to time now, like Monday she was talking about whether or not "We would go to the lake with [my--hoosjim's] family next summer" and "what we were going to do for the holidays in 2018", but then she'll come up with something like she did yesterday when we were talking on the phone about vacations and she was like "I really want to go somewhere tropical for my 50th (next May) but I want to go with my girlfriends". That latter was kind of hard for me to hear-- we are not wealthy, though we are comfortably "middle" to perhaps "upper middle" class, and a trip to the Caribbean or the like is not just a throw-away trip that we don't have to budget and plan for (Especially since we will soon have 2 kids in college). That she would want to go do something like that without me, and especially on a big occasion like her 50th, is kind of demoralizing. (FWIW, I had thought of doing something like that FOR her for 50th if things were going well for us but, obviously, that would have included me going as well.)

At any rate, just trying to figure out when and where and about what I should try to get her to do some talking again. She said she wanted space and I have given her some and that has seemed to correspond with an improved demeanor on her part. We next have MC (and, hopefully, a couple IC sessions the same day) a week from Friday, and it would be nice to have something new or something we had done on our own at MC's suggestion to take into that. Just not sure when would be the best to approach her and what we could talk about. I had been thinking that a "safe" place to start would be the affair triggers and opportunities-- she has repeatedly said "I really don't know how and when it crossed the line or how it happened" (WRT the affair), so my thought was to say "so why don't we explore that and try to figure it out-- both how the two of us got to that place where you were able to "step out" of the MR and then specifically what things you and/or Om did, or circumstances that existed that directly led to the relationship crossing the line."






Also, would love to discuss with her MY feelings regarding why I am still somewhat skittish about her and bff and about whole dynamic in general given missed opportunities to improve trust. In particular, the "farewell" phone call to OM, which she did not do in front of me and, given that OM has since contacted me, twice, seems to indicate it was not a particularly strong or strident "good bye". Also, the mishandling of the burner phone... rather than handing it over saying "here it's yours, it's over, do whatever you want with it", she pitches it and there are no records or even a phone number to run down (bff claims, apparently, to have deleted it, according to wife...of course wife could just be scared to ask her.) Either one of those were GREAT opportunities to make me feel a WHOLE LOT BETTER, but we're missed. For either, though, and taking into account your suggestion to not criticize or pressure right now, not sure it is a great time to bring those up. At least her phone pattern with bff is very suggestive that she is not maintaining a separate line... that is unless she cut bff out of the loop.