Any Advice 2

[25yearsmlc]

I truly feel like im running in a circle....

have you tried a DB coach? It's not cheap, but neither is divorce.

Your d's involvement in asking your w to answer the 5 Love Language test breaks my heart.

What, if anything, does she know?

[joejoe1]

GW,

You are so focused on this OM, that you are not focused on yourself. You are trying to figure out something that dont matter right now.

AS told me something on my thread a while back. You want to give your WS and OM space. You want her to start to see reality. The closer they get and the more You pull away the faster reality sets in. You won't her to start to rely on him for the percentage you are giving her, because once she dosent receive it the more her world will start to spin.

Detach and heal yourself. Become happy and confident. Trying to find out why is going to drive you crazy. You know your wrongs and that's all that matters now.

Make yourself on a fool would leave and maybe your W will start to open up too you. Let her go!!!!

[gw5263]

I feel like i need to explain some things from the previous post.

Tread - I didnt cut them a break. I am off the weekend. As far as using her seeing him as a boundary, unfortunatley, sur to the law here, i cannot kick her out of the house unless there is Domestic Violence. As long as her name is on the deed she cannot be forced out. I am not leaving MY house due to her behavior. It would be rewarding her. And dont think I'm afraid to do anything about the affair, I almost detonated the OM unitl i recognized it for what it was, revenge. Iwould give anything to end this affair.

25 - My Daughter had a copy of the book from a class at her high school and took the quiz for the child. She asked my wife to do it on her own, and also asked me, just to see the differences in our styles. She knows quite a bit about the A, except the graphic parts. My son also knows because he has overheard her facetiming OM while in her room while im at work. WW got super pissed when she thought that i had written OM older daughter from a previous marriage. She said that the girl is only 18 and doesnt need to know these things about her dad, but has no issue with our children knowing and manipulating our daughter early on in this mess. As far as a DB coach, I cannot afford one right now. I have had to hire two attorneys to help file bankruptcy due to her A. She quit paaying bills while we were separated, and now ive been hit with a garnishment, a lawsuit, and am starring a foreclosure in the face. Financially i am destroyed right now. I have every thing on me, and no end in sight. I get overwhelmed by it a lot. I pay all the bills, buy all the groceries, kids needs, and christmas is looming.
Her pay is divided between a car payment and the rest folded in.

25, i know it sound like i dont listen, but i do . As i said, at times im so overwhelmed by every thing that i just want to run. And i end up running incircles like a chicken with its head cut off. She talks to this bastard every night while walking, and there is nothing i can do. I am used to being in control to an extent, due to my job, but here i am not. I wish i could just grab her by the shoulders and scream what the hell are you thinking... I am going to go to the lake tomorrow and read for a long while and try to implement what ihave read. Ive done some good 180's as i wrote.

Joe Joe - I am not obsessed with the OM, I do like to know what they are up to because in the past they have schemed against me, As far as boundaries, this is the biggest thing i struggle with. I cant use kicking her out, I cant take her phone, i am sooo unsure of what could become a boundary. The only thing i can use is D, and i want to make sure i am willing to do it if need be. And right now to be honest i dont know that i am. I cant figure out my options to get her out of an active A. I cant push them closer, because he is three states away and she refuses to go to him. It is all over the phone. So any ideas would be extrememly helpful right about now. I have no idea what to do other than the 180's i have done and pull back. Just [censored] because it truly is counter intuitive. I fell like by not doing anything active, i am saying bby inaction that what shes doing is just peachy... I need to get my head right again and figure this out fast.

[CW2017]

have to admit I had a little wobble yesterday when I saw how keen the DD is in her church classes she deserves none of this **** and I don't care what anyone says she will be ***d for the rest of her life unless she grows to be a strong person yes my WW's fog is unbelievable despite recent events and despite knowing the correct LL and the exact type of affair (from other sources) I am abs helpless as others have suggested we just have to (somehow) concentrate on ourselves I have just switched roles at work and that is certainly filing my head at the moment

[Tread]

GW,

Trust me I personally know it's tough, but until you are willing to file for divorce. W behavior will not change. She will continue to have struggle with the bills the support the family. And she will continue to focus on OM. My W was doing the same to me until I realized that she was going to do more than just hurt R wise. My future was a stake. And you seem to be in a far worse financial situation than myself. W is seriously cake eating without the risk of losing anything.

[sandi2]

I know only too well it is real. i just had a hard times understanding why she felt like she needed to continue getting her emotional needs filled by him when i was readily available to do that

.

If you get an opportunity to read the differences in how men and women communicate to each other....and how their ears hear something else, I think you would find it interesting and maybe even beneficial.

As I understand it, your MR was not up to par when your W began her A. Therefore, I'm guessing she did not feel you were emotional available to her. It took her turning to another man to spur you out of your funk (for lack of a better word). I venture to say that she did try to communicate her needs, but you heard it as complaints, whining, & nagging.

My question i guess is how can i turn this ship around? I got the DR book today and im going to read it. I also have the five love languages book. I found out that her language is words of affirmation. How do i go about putting all this into play?

You are asking me to formulate a pat answer that take authors writing books to explain. We tell you to start with DB detaching........but you don't want to do it. You see it as "more of the same behavior", and you want to jump into some type of pursuing actions that will sweep her off her feet and win her back.

We tell you to GAL like there's no tomorrow, but you want to stick close to home and spend more time with the kids. Kids are a good excuse, but you still have to regularly GAL, not just once in a while. You see GAL as being absent and "more of the same" behavior to your W.

We tell you to do 180's, and you have made some remarkable steps in improving yourself. 180's are not just about self improvements. They are other things, such as causing some mystery. You want to start doing all the things in your M that you should have been doing for a long time, but you are not hearing what we are saying. These things will come in good time, but "timing" is critical in a WW situation. Before you can show her what a fantastic H you are, she needs to see what kind of man you are when she continues to bring a third person into the mix. Get it? What would you have done if she was a girlfriend and started two-timing you? As a man, how would you have dealt with her? I know, after M, things are not that simple, but human nature does not change. Nothing is more true that with a WW. Find the man you need to be. Then we can get down to details about the H role.

She gets no needs other than basics met by me right now. No sex, no intimacy. no emotional.

Of course she get more than basic needs from you! She gets benefits just being M to you. How many times has she enjoyed you going to the grocery store and got so much attention? How many times does she get to engage in conversations with you? How many times do you do things "as a family" (if only eating together)? How much help do you give her with the kids, and working on the house? See, you are not really separated. In-house S is an avenue to enable the WW to continue disrespecting her H, M, and home. So, it's makes it more complicated.

I know only too well it is real. i just had a hard times understanding why she felt like she needed to continue getting her emotional needs filled by him when i was readily available to do that

.

If you get an opportunity to read the differences in how men and women communicate to each other....and how their ears hear something else, I think you would find it interesting and maybe even beneficial.

As I understand it, your MR was not up to par when your W began her A. Therefore, I'm guessing she did not feel you were emotional available to her. It took her turning to another man to spur you out of your funk (for lack of a better word). I venture to say that she did try to communicate her needs, but you heard it as complaints, whining, & nagging.

My question i guess is how can i turn this ship around? I got the DR book today and im going to read it. I also have the five love languages book. I found out that her language is words of affirmation. How do i go about putting all this into play?

You are asking me to formulate a pat answer that take authors writing books to explain. We tell you to start with DB detaching........but you don't want to do it. You see it as "more of the same behavior", and you want to jump into some type of pursuing actions that will sweep her off her feet and win her back.

We tell you to GAL like there's no tomorrow, but you want to stick close to home and spend more time with the kids. Kids are a good excuse, but you still have to regularly GAL, not just once in a while. You see GAL as being absent and "more of the same" behavior to your W.

We tell you to do 180's, and you have made some remarkable steps in improving yourself. 180's are not just about self improvements. They are other things, such as causing some mystery. You want to start doing all the things in your M that you should have been doing for a long time, but you are not hearing what we are saying. These things will come in good time, but "timing" is critical in a WW situation. Before you can show her what a fantastic H you are, she needs to see what kind of man you are when she continues to bring a third person into the mix. Get it? What would you have done if she was a girlfriend and started two-timing you? As a man, how would you have dealt with her? I know, after M, things are not that simple, but human nature does not change. Nothing is more true that with a WW. Find the man you need to be. Then we can get down to details about the H role.

She gets no needs other than basics met by me right now. No sex, no intimacy. no emotional.

Of course she get more than basic needs from you! She gets benefits just being M to you. How many times has she enjoyed you going to the grocery store and got so much attention? How many times does she get to engage in conversations with you? How many times do you do things "as a family" (if only eating together)? How much help do you give her with the kids, and working on the house? See, you are not really separated. In-house S is an avenue to enable the WW to continue disrespecting her H, M, and home. So, it's makes it more complicated.

We tell you to do 180's, and you have made some remarkable steps in improving yourself. 180's are not just about self improvements. They are other things, such as causing some mystery. You want to start doing all the things in your M that you should have been doing for a long time, but you are not hearing what we are saying. These things will come in good time, but "timing" is critical in a WW situation. Before you can show her what a fantastic H you are, she needs to see what kind of man you are when she continues to bring a third person into the mix. Get it? What would you have done if she was a girlfriend and started two-timing you? As a man, how would you have dealt with her? I know, after M, things are not that simple, but human nature does not change. Nothing is more true than with a WW. Find the man you once were...or need to be. Then we can get down to more details about the H role. Within a WW situation, the root problem is disrespect toward her H. Therefore, you have to observe her level of respect in her actions and attitude as if you were an outsider looking in on the scene. Before you can have her true desire and admiration.....you've got to have her respect. One of the main differences in men and women is that women are designed to love one at a time. Men may feel love for more than one woman, but usually, women don't. They are more complexed. Their "in-love" feelings are tied to their level of respect for that man. When he becomes her H, that function doesn't change, it intensifies.

She gets no needs other than basics met by me right now. No sex, no intimacy. no emotional.

Of course she gets more than basic needs from you! She gets benefits just being M to you. How many times has she enjoyed you going to the grocery store and got so much attention? How many times does she get to engage in conversations with you? How many times do you do things "as a family" (if only eating together)? See, you are not really separated. In-house S is just an avenue to enable the WW to continue disrespecting her H, M, and home. So, it's makes it more complicated.

So, let's design a plan of action. First, I want you to understand that when you read DR and 5LL, you will be eager to start lavishing all this on your WW. But here's the thing, #1 read DR carefully and don't skip around. This book tells how divorce is not the answer, and the steps to bust a divorce. Most of the book is geared for couples who are willing to work on their M. There are statements in the book that tells the reader, but if you skip around, you are likely to miss it. #2 the book does not discuss the wayward spouse. It talks about infidelity, and groups it with the WAS.

5LL is a very enlightening book! It usually inspires its readers to immediately apply what they've learned. IMHO, I see this book and its application in the same way I see giving validation for the W who wants out of the M. (Btw, they aren't the same.) If it feels unnatural for the H.....he should practice on others first (his kids, relatives, co-workers, etc.) Of course, you need to be cautious of what you apply to co-workers, but you could practice validation, and words of affirmation. This part of his plan is to groom himself for becoming the man only a fool would leave. Then, he slowly begins to apply what he has practiced.

My LL would come under words of affirmation. When I was very young, this would helped my self-esteem so much! Words of affirmation is much, much more than just giving compliments & praise. In a MR, I think it carries over into emotional intimacy for some of us. I need that pillow talk with my H. I need to hear him say more than just ILY. I want to hear why he loves me, and talk about particular times that I took his breath away b/c he felt so much love. When I don't get it, I feel like a flower in the Sahara. It does not come naturally for my H. He's not a talker. So, both sides have to make an effort to speak each other's LL. Therefore, consider yourself as being in class. quote]

I will continue this conversation in a new post.

[Tread]

Sandi,

Great explanation. Now my question is if the wayward wife has another man. And we have to treat her as if we were her boyfriend. Then wouldn't we just end things with her? Which would be the equivalent to completely detaching? Or even filing for divorce?

[sandi2]

Well, lost the post I had typed out, so here I go again.

I have to tell you something about your W. She's playing you. She is trying to protect the OM and also ensure that the affair continues. She accomplishes it by throwing a few crumbs in your direction and you see it as a "sign" she's coming around to her old self again.

You wanted to know what you need to do right now? Stop trying to manage your W. Stop trying to manage the OM and their affair. It doesn't work. The more you try to manage her, the more you are pushing her away. When you stop and let her go, then it draws her toward you. Not immediately, maybe, but if you'll stick with it.....you'll have a bigger chance in turning the ship around.

You and Tread want to know what part you are suppose to give your WW. You guys are getting the cart before the horse. Before you can give her the things you really want to give at the moment, you have to educate yourselves. Otherwise, you are just working from your emotions and that's like going into battle without basic training.

I want you to treat your WW no better and no worse than you treat the checkout clerk at the grocery store. You are friendly, but not too friendly. You show a PMA, without talking about yourself. You don't ask personal questions about her activities, and you don't share your own. You don't try to get close, or sneak a little physical touching, and you don't invite her to go out with you. You appear to be an interesting man, but you don't stick around watching her until she gets off work. She sees you eager to leave, on your way to ......what, she doesn't know. Although she only sees you for just a few minutes, she finds herself liking the cool, confident man that stands before her, enough that she would like to know more about him.

Whenever your WW acts as if she's flirting or throwing other crumbs at you, you need to appear completely unimpressed. Look at her as if she was a three year old little girl that you can see right through her playful games. Remember how Rhett Butler would be amused at Scarlett when she was using her feminine wiles, and when she got angry at him, due to her own selfishness......he would often laugh at her dramatic behavior. However, he never laughed at real, unselfish pain. When it came to her continued fantasy about loving another man after Rhett married her, he left (that famous scene where he says, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a d---".), and it took years of her growing up and working very hard to get him back again. He may not be the perfect example of how a man should deal with a WW, but I think he's a pretty good role model in how to interact with one. The point is that she learned the hard way what she really wanted and who she really loved, and she had to accept responsibility for losing her M to Rhett. It was due to her own selfish behavior and unwillingness to be the faithful wife she should have been in order to keep him.

I cant push them closer, because he is three states away and she refuses to go to him.

You have got to stop thinking of their affair in the physical sense only. Did you read my previous two posts? She refuses to go to him in Georgia, but she wants to continue getting the emotional thrill. So, stop competing for your own wife. You cannot manage them.

[sandi2]

Now my question is if the wayward wife has another man. And we have to treat her as if we were her boyfrien

Where on earth did you get that idea? Was it from me asking what you would have done if you weren't M and discovered she was two-timing you? If so, I hope I answered your question in my previous post.

[sandi2]

Trust me I personally know it's tough, but until you are willing to file for divorce.

If I may clarify something in this statement, b/c I think some men take it to mean they have to literally go file for a divorce. IMHO, it is having the attitude, or coming to that point of letting the M go.