Limerence and My Situation 5

[AnotherStander]

But to me, the thought of "waiting" sounds like you are giving her the power over your life and your choices. As if there is nothing for you to do but sit and be patient for the day when your W approaches you about reconciling. For me, I assumed that one day my XW would come back asking to reconcile, but for me, I wasnt going to put my life on hold until that day came. Someday she might, but by now, it doesnt really matter.

I agree. We don't wait, we move on. That does not necessarily mean we quit the M or our spouse, it just means we leave them be and we get about the business of making our life our own, separate and apart from them. The recons I'm familiar with mostly played out with the WAS eventually returning and the LBS saying "I don't know if I want this anymore." That is really what every LBS should strive for- getting to the point of no longer needing the WAS. Because as Michele says in her books, it's OK to "want" someone, but not OK to "need" them. I think a lot of LBS emotions are driven by need- "I don't know how to shop or do laundry or take the kids to the doctor or bring home a paycheck, OMG, what's going to happen to me", etc. etc. And that's not a healthy thing. It's not attractive to our spouse or anyone else really. So we rebuild, become stronger, become independent. Somewhere along the line we quit needing our WAS. If and when they return, we have to decide if we still "want" them.

Now back to you Mark. You're holding a candle for W and there is NOTHING wrong with that AT ALL. I think a lot of LBS's are too quick to give up all hope, so I think it's fantastic and admirable that you have hope. You SHOULD have hope! Because hope drives us. Hope is powerful. The one thing I'll nick you on is you keep saying things that indicate you want your W to know the door is open for her to return. But if you do that, you're painting a big ol' "Plan B" on your forehead and no one ever wants to go back to Plan B. Plan B is dull and boring and just always there. It's human nature for people to pass over what is easy to obtain and instead, to want what they can't have. They want that which is challenging to obtain. So just think about that and try not to fall into the trap of temperature checking her.

[lcause]

I know that this post was not really about Mark's thread, but I have been thinking about this idea for a long time now.

The reality is, we are ALL plan B. Or we were plan B at some point. Or some of us might have been plan zero. The fact that our W/H chose to run off with AP, makes us plan B by definition. If we were plan A, they would not have run off.

I have also come to realize that any LBS, in the history of the world, that has reconed their marriage, was plan B. If our S's A has blown up in their face and they return, we are plan B. I have often thought that I don't want to be plan B. These very boards preach that we can't be plan B. If that is the case, then we all need to go file D right now because currently, we are plan B.

Here's the rub though. I recognize that I am plan B for my W now (or plan zero and I don't know that yet). If I save my marriage and we decide to recon, I know that I would be going into piecing as plan B. But!!!...We have to begin to recon knowing that were are plan B, but our goal needs to be to return as plan A to our S. That is the only way it can be done.

We were all once plan A for our S's. They picked us, loved us and married us. I know I was plan A for my W for a very long time. My thought is that, if we were all, at one time, plan A for our S's, why can't we become plan A again in the future. I don't see any other way around this concept.

So, I have accepted that I am plan B or plan zero right now. I also have hope that if I ever get the chance, I can become plan A again and I think that Mark's mind is operating in that same way.

The way I see it that an affair rarely happens in a healthy, fulfilling, marriage. The spouse feels somehow neglected. This does not mean that I condone affairs, of course not, however in THEIR view they see themselves being right and in THEIR view they aren't OUR plan A. They feel entitled to feel the feelings they get from the AP. We tend to shift our priorities to work, children, family life during our long marriages and we forget to water the grass by continuing dating and taking time for the just two of us.

In my opinion, the term "plan B" for someone isn't viewed from their perspective but ours. When someone is a plan B for someone else, it usually means the person is there WAITING for the WS/WAS/MLCer to return, sobbing their sad life and that they would directly accept the WS/WAS/MLCer back into their life happily without the long and hard piecing process. They keep collecting the breadcrumbs and stay attached... We aren't "the plan B" when we are happily living our own lives moving forward, accepting that the M is over and lovingly detaching while enforcing our boundaries. Realizing that we are fine either way and we judge the situation again IF and WHEN the WS/WAS/MLCer decides to shift their view of us.

[Parkema]

Matrix,

Thanks for your contribution.

Question: others mention plan b and this is how we’re perceived by our WW/H did we not get to this point over time? If this happened to US those that have gone through childbirth, our wedding many family events and the commitment to build a home then why do some feel that this won’t happen to the “lovebirds”! I feel if they do remain plan a’s for each other then it’s meant to be – simple but also feel that the chances for that aren’t great.

I’ll move forwards with MY life as that’s the ONLY thing I can control but with the hope that in time her present plan a turns into the inevitable plan b whilst I’ve either continued to show her a better option OR moved on to pastures new. How I show her that better option is what I get beat up over!

Your post has helped me a great deal with respect to the concept and I appreciate it.

M.

[Parkema]

"we forget to water the grass by continuing dating and taking time for the just two of us."

Sorry but that's very biased how do you know Matrix or me for that matter didn't invest in our MR? I do agree once this happens we snap out of habitual hibernation BUT that also works both ways I just chose to not cross the line.

Thanks.

[LH19]

I'll give my 2 cents. IMO it depends on the situation. If WW realizes she made a mistake and wants to recon and does all the work necessary that's not plan B. That is admitting to a mistake and doing everything in your power to make up for it. However if OM dumps WW and she doesn't want to be alone and goes back to the safety net. That's plan B and totally unacceptable in my book.

[lcause]

Well, if she felt entitled to start an affair, she didn't feel the same way you did. That was just an example scenario. Or are you claiming that you were the model husband to her, yet she chose to start an affair? I don't think so as you talk about habitual hibernation. Bottom line is that when an affair happens, some want was not fulfilled (and she chose to disregard the healthy marriage boundaries).

It sounds quite frightening that you "chose not to cross the line". If you are happily married, crossing the line isn't even something that visits your mind.

I'm not trying to mock you or anything.

[Parkema]

Shame as it came across that way.

Entitled...WTF

lcause your post really p1$$ed me off but I'll give no time to it.

I wish you well in your situation.

[Maika]

Here's the rub though. I recognize that I am plan B for my W now (or plan zero and I don't know that yet). If I save my marriage and we decide to recon, I know that I would be going into piecing as plan B. But!!!...We have to begin to recon knowing that were are plan B, but our goal needs to be to return as plan A to our S. That is the only way it can be done.

Matrix, I really enjoyed reading your take on the Plan B, but I have to say that I very much disagree with you on this point.

The only way the LBS can stay as Plan B in the recon process if they take their W/H back without making them do serious work.

If my W ever wants to recon with me, and if I take her back just like that, then I continue to remain Plan B and it increases the chances of the next BD and A. But, if she comes back for recon, and I know exactly what I would need from her to piece things together, then I am already Plan A - because I can walk away if she doesn't want to meet my expectations and needs. I can also walk away any time during the piecing period if she starts to slip - and that is why the LBS at this point is not Plan B because they won't take any more $hit.

Some of this also depends on the motivation for the W/H to want recon. Is it because the A blew up and they needed to run back to a familiar place? Is it because the LBS became so much more attractive again and the W/H realized that they made a mistake?

If they're coming back for safety and familiarity, then you're Plan B only if you take them back as is. If they return and you don't buy into their bull$hit and show them that you're ready to walk at any point, and they still stay and agree to do the work, then you're not Plan B.

Also from the LBS's perspective, you are transforming into Plan A through DBing and if W/H doesn't see that, it doesn't matter because someone else will. With DB, power and control change hands in favour of the LBS and that empowerment in itself is a great driver for becoming Plan A again.

I won't ever piece with W if she treats me like Plan B and I see that she has a foot out of the door. She has already walked out on me, and so for me it doesn't become hard to walk out on her as I already know that my life is going to be fine.

[Maika]

I think this watering the grass analogy comes from the position where the LBS is somehow largely responsible for the failure of the MR and the W/H walking away and/or having an A because they just didn't get what they needed from the MR. That's partly true that they didn't get what they needed from the MR, but I believe that this put the blame disproportionately on the LBS.

As Mark said, most of us (barring being abusive), invested in our MR but got complacent, lazy, depressed etc, which added to the situation. But, I don't seen any of those reasons as S or D worthy. They can be worked on and with the number of LBS's here, I get the impression that if the W/H had said "hey, I am really unhappy and we need to work on x, y, z, because I feel like we are heading towards separation/divorce", most of us would've jumped at that and pulled up our sleeves and started the work on the MR. But, that is not how $hit went down.

I know that many people say that the W/H was giving signs all along and we just didn't pick up on them etc etc, but how come the W/H didn't sit down with the LBS and just say what they felt point blank? That's what is the most trippy about this. It is not that their feelings were not valid or true, but how they chose to deal with those feelings - walking out and crossing the marriage lines - is what's most maddening.

Sorry for the roundabout explanation, but coming back to the watering the grass analogy, this is where it doesn't hold up because ultimately the W/H walked away because of their OWN issues, not because of the LBS. This is largely about them and it is easy to scapegoat and blame the LBS because they're the closet point of contact for this. And this is why DB philosophy is important because once the LBS is out of the picture, the W/H can come to the realization that their problems didn't just magically disappear away.

Also, where the hell were they in terms of watering the grass in the MR? It's not a one way street.

I have a pretty good idea of some of the main issues with my W, and she chose to blame me for a lot things rather than address her own $hit. And walking away from me will not erase them, but actually make them even more pronounced because she has nowhere to hide now.

I hate that the LBS's here take so much of the blame. I know I did initially, but most of us did invest in our MR and whatever our faults were, they were not separation worthy. So, as AS had pointed out about the LBS fog, I hope that all the LBS's get out of that and realize that they are worthy people and this isn't about them at the core. It is all about the W/H that decided to step out.

I would have more respect for W if she said that she isn't a place to be married and needs a divorce - own up to it and be honest. The only upside to this ridiculous BD nonsense is that it gives the LBS a chance to seriously self-reflect on their actions in the MR and work on them. That is what my take away from BD is - I have time and insight now to know what are my areas of improvement and also what my strengths are, and what I need in any relationship moving forward.

[Parkema]

Maika,

Through all of the information gathering I’ve done about this and the subject of my original post I get some comfort in that I understand the WW truly isn’t herself at this time. I’ll get knocked again but she is basically running on a different mind-set brought on by a chemical imbalance in the brain, I think you know what I’m talking about.

In time this wears off it has to and then MAYBE my WW will see a little more clearly, surely someone thinking straight wouldn’t put their own children through the detachment she inflicted on them when being courted by the AP/LO!
THIS IS REAL PEOPLE!!!

Whilst she’s still in this state I don’t exist nor do her children to a degree, as so many have mentioned this is no longer my W and will never be the same again. So IF RC happens with me and if the conditions are met why can’t there be a new and improved MR? After all with all the DR‘ing we’re doing and all the improvements we’re achieving it wouldn’t be any worse!!!

Being there for her when she needs it and being her safe place puts me In credit for if and when she realises her new plan a is no longer! Not allowing her this IN MY BOOK just continues to make me look like the plan b she left in the first place.

Again I choose RC because I believe it's the right thing to do.

BUT again in time I might be in a place where I’ve moved on but find this difficult to believe due to the strong feelings I have for keeping my family together and the L I STILL have for my WW.

TIME CHANGES EVERYTHING.

M.