That's my point, I read most people Sitch and how I read them, are that their detachments are cold and angry. Their interactions are get in and get out. IMO, that's weak, that comes off as weak. A person with confidence approaches every person with love and positivity IMO, even a person that has hurt you. I can't see how any person would want to return to a person that totally cuts them off. I think we as LBS can keep a crack in the door while still moving on with our lives.
I'm not saying you say, "hey there's a chance". I'm saying every time a WAS sees a LBS it should be a positive interaction and the last moments of that interaction, should be done with a smile and happiness and joy of the LBS part. I know it's hard for us as LBS, to find joy and happiness in this process, but if we truly can get that spot while still in regular interaction with a WAS, we can turn the tide a bit. It's a hard journey, but every Vet on here has said this will be the hardest thing we ever have done in our lives.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
...those were all WH weren't they. I think they a more likely to come back than WW.
Yeah, I have mostly women friends. I do have a guy friend in our sitch, but his WW is still waffling about OM.
It's interesting you say that because I've heard the same about WHs - less likely to come back. Once a man makes up his mind and all that...
Holding - agree with you totally that a return, if on the cards, exceeds in timescale what the LBS is prepared for. When this first happened to me, I consulted my guy friend who was also near the beginning of his sitch. We both counselled each other to hang on for one year. 16 months later and nothing's changed.
I heard on a Christian standing podcast, nice lady Charlyne who cares, that most returns are around the two year mark. But at the same time I know I haven't detached and probably won't until I've lost all hope and given up, which is probably exactly when WH will waltz back in. When I really don't want him back. Forget the law of attraction, it's Sod's Law we should be discussing.
Joejoe and Maika - excellent points about the quality of our detachment. I don't know how to detach without being cold. Too painful without a hardened heart.
Joe I think that happens as most people don't spend time really looking at the guidance on detachment. Peanut's short detachment list talks about the importance of detaching lovingly. That does add to making the LBS more attractive. So I agree with what you have said.
But I have also read sitch's here where there was massive amounts of disrespect towards the LBS, in which case the advice would change to become indifferent and truly not care. I think if you think about Tx's sitch, I didn't read it as him being cold to his W. he just stopped giving a f*uck and lived his life and didn't care about recon. IMHO that mental strength is not what DB is about.
The quicker you can get past your anger and come to a sense of peace the better of your recon chances will be. Stable, steady, emotionless, gently steering the ship.
It is hard because when your W is banging some other dude the male ego takes over. You have to overcome your own ego if your going to stay the course. Be confident in who you are, your value as a man and even though this is happening you always know that no matter what your the best option.
I agree with your assessment of TxHubby approach. But from my own experience I know it's a hard concept to implement without turning cold. I had to scale back on his approach, because I was ghosting my wife and I realized that I wasn't prepared to go all in yet. I think a lot of people here see detachment as going cold, while I have realized that it's about moving on with your life, while still showing love and respect for a person, that has disrespected you. You don't allow them to disrespect you any more.
M:37 W:37 T:11 M:10 S17, S13, S10, S4 BD:06/28/17 OM confirmed 07/20/17 Recon the M 10/29/17 Working hard:2gether
Onward and forward
This process is not a sprint it's a marathon! Patience, Patience, Patience.
You mention being more loving and others detaching with anger. But it all depends on the sitch. I tried detaching with love, but my W took that as an opportunity to take advantage. So yes I was angry and have calmed down over time. But I ain't putting up with nonsense all in the name of trying to R. No woman would respect a man for doing that.
My W has calmed down the obvious trifiling behavior since I went off on her. And pretty much stopped trying to speak with her outside of S13. So when we speak, I keep it cordial. But that will only continue as long as she is peaceful. If I find she doing something else disrespectful, then I will handle it accordingly. Being peaceful when someone has displayed physical violence against you is not worthy of loving responses.
That's my point, I read most people Sitch and how I read them, are that their detachments are cold and angry. Their interactions are get in and get out. IMO, that's weak, that comes off as weak. A person with confidence approaches every person with love and positivity IMO, even a person that has hurt you. I can't see how any person would want to return to a person that totally cuts them off. I think we as LBS can keep a crack in the door while still moving on with our lives.
I'm not saying you say, "hey there's a chance". I'm saying every time a WAS sees a LBS it should be a positive interaction and the last moments of that interaction, should be done with a smile and happiness and joy of the LBS part. I know it's hard for us as LBS, to find joy and happiness in this process, but if we truly can get that spot while still in regular interaction with a WAS, we can turn the tide a bit. It's a hard journey, but every Vet on here has said this will be the hardest thing we ever have done in our lives.
I do agree. I'm not cold towards my XW, but I'm not intentionally hanging in the meetings. I don't talk to her except if I really notice something is wrong (e.g. last weekend when she got hospitalized), outside of kids. I'm more interested in seeing my kids though so I'm super happy each time hugging my kids like crazy in the meetings. Thus that makes myself just genuinely "smile" a bit and then I watch my XW in eyes while she's talking about what kids have eaten etc. That is how I also see Mark interacting with his W. Friendly neighbor approach. Basically, I reflect back what she does. If she's open, I'm more open etc. I definitely don't pursue any discussions and I do cut it short each time I drop my kids, unless she asks me to come and I don't have a hurry. But never cold or angry.
Originally Posted By: 2016sux
It's interesting you say that because I've heard the same about WHs - less likely to come back. Once a man makes up his mind and all that...
I heard on a Christian standing podcast, nice lady Charlyne who cares, that most returns are around the two year mark. But at the same time I know I haven't detached and probably won't until I've lost all hope and given up, which is probably exactly when WH will waltz back in. When I really don't want him back. Forget the law of attraction, it's Sod's Law we should be discussing.
The statistic I've seen and remember is that 20-30% of women and 50-60% of men regret. Women tend to go into affairs when they have really lost the emotional bond to their H while men tend to just fling their middle leg around even if they'd still be in the M. This is the odd part because men are usually referred as the fixers and the logical thinkers. Definitely not when they pursue an extramarital affair, lol.
The difference in that is you can either not want him back or you can trust that your feelings will come back if he does the work. I don't believe in the claims that attraction dies... If you were once attracted to someone, you will be attracted to them always (but emotional burden is just blocking it and maybe he/she is not physically that attractive anymore but that's a thing what they can work on!). Love is a choice and you can decide to build on it or decide that it's over completely.
In my thirties, BDd 2017, divorced 2 young kids new relationship
It is hard because when your W is banging some other dude the male ego takes over. You have to overcome your own ego if your going to stay the course. Be confident in who you are, your value as a man and even though this is happening you always know that no matter what your the best option.
If you are confident in who you are and know your value as a man, why would you ever tolerate your W banging another dude?
A friend of mine was a LBH as his XW left to pursue a relationship with AP. 3 weeks later she came crawling back. He showed her the door. 6 months later she tried again. Same response. So not all LBH's want to reconsile.
Wish my WW were this smart -- no such luck. Not everyone for sure but 85-90%???. Seems unbelievable, doesn't it? Would love to have AS's input if he's reading this.
Sorry have been super busy at work the last few days. Here is my take on this from my own sitch and having talked to a lot of other LBSs that had a change of heart later- after BD our WAS is in a fog but SO ARE WE! The WAS is wearing glasses that filter out everything good about the M. The WAS only sees the bad things. They think they've always been miserable, that things were never good, they were acting "as if" things were OK but they really weren't, etc. etc. etc. The LBS is ALSO wearing glasses, but they are the OPPOSITE filter. The LBS only remembers good things about the WAS and M (at first). They think the M was nirvana and that their life will not be complete unless they can restore the M, and put things "back to normal".
Here's the thing, time fixes that. The WAS starts remembering that the M wasn't so bad after all. And the LBS starts remembering that the M wasn't so great after all. The LBS eventually comes to another conclusion- the old M is DEAD AND GONE, NEVER TO RETURN. They start to realize that even if they do recon, they can't ever trust the WAS again like they used to. And they also realize that the WAS has CHANGED, they are not the person they were before and they likely never will be again. So the LBS realizes it's no longer a question of restoring the M, but rather the issue is do they even want a new M with this changed WAS.
Again I always try to make it clear that my personal examples are a very, very tiny sampling of the world out there. I only make this point because a lot of LBSs look at statistics and think "oh wow, there's only a 1.793% chance I can save my M. What they don't realize is that quite often, that low percentage is because the LBS chose not to recon. If the LBS waits long enough they probably will get a shot at recon.
OK, so I don't share my own personal experience on this too much but here it is. After BD I was a terrible mess, I felt like my W was all there was to my life and losing her was unbearable to the point of working through various ideas for suicide. I simply could not imagine life without this amazing woman. As time went on, maybe 18 months to 2 years? I started remembering our M wasn't so great. We were both awesome parents, and we had sex with each other, but certainly there were no butterflies or even much of a feeling of affection for years and years. I remember telling W more than once going back years before BD that it felt like we were just roommates. Physically she lost her figure and her good looks, when we were married I was OK with that but after D I just felt zero physical attraction to her. The sex was boring and mundane, because she liked it that way. Missionary on the floor of the master closet with that door closed and the bedroom door closed because she was afraid the kids might hear. I am far more sexually adventurous, but again I put up with it because we were married. Anyway this post is getting pretty long so I will just say I came to the realization that I put up with a LOT of crap in the M just because we were married. It was FAR from the ideal M that I wanted. But it was what I had so I made due.
BUT when W ended it, I no longer had to just accept the status quo. And going back to the status quo ceased to be an attractive option for me. I NO LONGER WANTED TO RECON. And I still don't. THIS is the exact same sentiment I've heard over and over again from LBSs, the LBS just gets over it and moves on and no longer wants or needs the WAS. Seems like it takes about 18 months to 2 years for the LBS to get there, which is typically less time than it takes for the WAS to decide they want to recon. You can see how that schedule might result in a ton of failed WAS-initiated recon attempts.
There have been several sitches right here on these boards where a LBS in the MIDDLE of DB'ing suddenly has their WAS come back, and they suddenly go from wanting them back desperately to wondering why they wanted them back at all. It's a strange thing, like them coming back triggers an extreme distaste in the LBSs mind. Just the fact that the WAS wants back makes the LBS not want it. Strange the way our minds work!
Sorry for being so wordy, I hope that helps explain the point/ points I was trying to make!
