Any Advice 2

[gw5263]

Are there any 180's i can take from this? without defeating detachment?

[sandi2]

I still cant understand the dynamics of her A or how it has lasted with very minimal physical contact.

I thought I had responded to you having problems in understanding or accepting how it works for her. For you, a "real" A has to include physical contact. For her, OM is is filling some emotional needs. It is real to your W, and EA's are difficult to get over b/c of the fantasy ingredient. It is hard to fight a fantasy in one's head.

I've read many times that men place more importance on the physical side on sex, while women place more importance on the emotional side of it. Whether you see it as being a real R, or not.........it is a real problem in you M! You cannot resolve this problem by trying to get her to see things the way you see them. It just leads her into more resentment. She has to be free to make decisions for herself, without verbal or emotional pressure from you.

I suggest you do not try to convince your W of what is not real, and don't try to reason with her. While her brain is flooded with the affair chemicals and she is showing rebellion.....she is not going to be logical.

Scary thought, huh? So, if you can't appeal to her logic or emotionally pressure her......what options do you have? Start living by the detaching guidelines by Peanut. Fill in your calendar every week with GAL activities. Stop watching her so closely and trying to interrupt her actions. Men can't figure women out when we are sane.......so why think you have a chance when we are insane?

[25yearsmlc]

well, except for calling your wife insane, I think you need to take in what Sandi said, and really take it in. No rebuttal needed, okay?

In some ways, your w's response is quite rational. She does not need his physical presence to feel valued or listened to, and tbh, some of your behavior sounds abusive.

I know from a law enforcement perspective that sounds too dramatic, but to her and emotionally speaking, I am not sure its far off. If you were an "a$$hole/jerk" to her,

then does it really shock you that a guy who makes her feel valued and cherished, is fantasized about?

So let's figure out who you were when she fell in love with you, okay? Let's get you back to being him,

and if it's vague to you, then what do you think a man of strength and honor is like?

[gw5263]

25, i agree. I was not and hever never been verbally or physically abusive towards my wife. Looking back now with a clear mind, I can see the emoitionally abusive aspect. All she wanted was love , and i failed to show it. I denied sex, i did not show affection, I basically made her feell inferior, unloved, and unwanted. All this because i had an issue with alcohol abuse. I can see it clearly now that i am sober. I made the conditons ripe for this to happen. She made the choice, but i created the environment.

When we first fell in love, I was funny, outgoing, loved to spend every free minute with her. She was the first woman i ever fell in love with. I was new to the whole affection sharing, what to do type stuff. My parents never showed affection towards each other for as long as i can remember. Both of them cheated on each other. No kissing, hugging, hand holding, etc. Its no excuse, but i didnt have very good role models in that dept. My wife showed me the way, she told me what she wanted and needed and i went out of the way to provide it. Problems surface when i started self medicating PTSD with alcohol heavy late last year. Up till then we were good. Great sex life, good communication, etc. No excuse for it. PTSD is not an excuse. I just couldnt talk about the traumas i had seen and a good buzz made it go away. Unfortunatley it also made her go away. I have been clean for about 94 days now and have been making changes and trying to continually improve.

Even all of the things that have happened since i discovered the A have not caused me to stray from the path. As you have seen, i have struggled hard with my emotions, and at some points during all this i actually felt like i was losing my mind. I came up with hairbrained Wile E Coyote schems to get her back, to get him to dump her, Etc. With everything you and Sandi have been telling me, i ahve come to this realization -

OM is not the problem, my wife and I are. I created the issues we were having, she failed to communicate the issues to me, I created an evironment ripe for this to happen, and she made the decision to pursue it. A lot of negative things have been said, threats on both our parts to divorce, turn the OM in and ruin his life, take the kids and move in with OM only allowing me to see them every summer, plaing the guilt card ( Me mostly) to name a few.

Funny thing is, about a week after the alcohol fog lifted, i felt like i was going to explode with emotions. I told her how i felt- madly in love with her,how i knew the day i met her i loved her, how the day we got married i knew she was the only woman i would ever love, wanting to spend time together cuddling on the couch watching TV, hold her hand while we shopped. Random for no reason other than i loved her kisses while she was cooking, holding her while we slept, on and on.
She bagan to sob uncontrollably and said why couldnt you have been like this in october? I felt like a total POS. I realized then what i had done. Now i want to make up for all the shortcoming s i have had. I have gotten some balance in the last week and think i now have the rogue emotions and thoughts under control

For whatever reason, we are getting along great. She smiles more, laughs more, talks more. I know what you are going to say, I need to detach. I will admit my fear here, If i detach too much will it not be seen as more of the same? No attention etc? And yes, in the time i have been on here, i have been all over the place. I am settled now and want to put in whatever work is needed to accomplish the mission.

BTW, I read Sandis original post, and all her posts for the LBS again. twice today. I am very impressed by her struggle and will power. I can only hope i can be as dedicated as her.

25, any ideas on how to begin detachment with out looking neglectful, like i was before? I dont want her to think i have gone back to that person. One of her fears is that i would start drinking again due to all this, but i havent yeilded. I see the damage it has done and have no desire to return to that life. Now i wish she could see how much she means to me and how much i love her. I did tell her during this that i did not NEED her for anything, I did not NEED her in my life, that anyone can fill needs. I wanted her in my life, i wanted to love her, i wanted to kiss her, i wanted to grow old with her, I wanted to make love to her, and i wanted to return to our family. She seemed genuinely taken by that. It is how i feel. I know she doesnt love me right now, or have those feeling for me either. they are all attached to OM. I dont need those feeling from her, I WANT them again. I want us again.

Maybe im screwing all this up, or have screwed it all up. But i am strong, and patient, and will try until i cant any more. I have listened to you and some others i have viewed as mentors, even though it seems like i ignored what you had to say, i took it all in, and today i did it again. I reread everything to try and gain some clarity. I see what must be done, and thankfully none of you have given up on me yet. Please don't ! I can do this. Just need to get it rolling before its too late.

Thanks,for your time and patience. Gary.

[sandi2]

I have been clean for about 94 days now and have been making changes and trying to continually improve.

Congratulations! Do you have some type of support system in place? Attending AA?

I admit I don't have experience with alcohol addition. I do understand some addictions, however, and I think having a plan and support to help keep you on track is important. Even Weight Watchers have support groups where they share information and experiences. They learn how to plan, learn to recognize their triggers, learn when they are more easily tempted to go off the wagon, and when they feel less empowered. Most importantly, they learn how to deal with it. Did you know that most social gatherings have booze or food....or both? I bet you did!

[gw5263]

Sandi,
AA and peer support. Alcoholism runs in my family, (Dad, Grandfather) and unfortunatley my profession has high rates of Alcoholism, suicide, and divorce due to the stress of the job and the things we see. No excuses. Just stats. Even with all the drama and things that have gone on since discovery, i have not had the slightest urge to fall off the wagon.

This marriage, my wife, and kids mean more to me than anything that comes in a can. I ill do whatever is required to at least have a chance at sucees with my marriage. I have not lost hope, despite feeling in limbo. I will not give up until i have no other option. She means so much to me. As i said before, i dont need her in my life, i want her in my life. I will put in the work needed to do this.

I read and re read your initial post when youfirst got here. I wish my wife had your courage and strength. I wish her eyes would open. But i cant count on wishes, much like i cant hopoe the affair just dies on its own. I wish i could. But i have to implement what ive learned here and make it happen or not happen. Wishes wont cut it.

Knowing that emotional neglect on my part contributed to the environment of the affair, should i fully ddetach, or will she percieve this as the old me creeping back in? you may have already answered this, if so im sorry. Until yesterday my mind was all over the place. 25MLC saw this and i realized it when i was shown it. I have settled, and am ready to work hard. We are actually getting along better now than before her EA began. I just want to have the best possible chance at a sucessful outcome, so i will be asking alot of questions. If i need my pumpkin busted a time or two so be it, i can handle it. Its the only way to learn sometimes, someone hitting you with the cold hard truth.

[SI_Spy]

Question: you've previously stated that you DID turn in the OM, but here you stated you didn't. Just for clarification, have you turned him in? There are a few people who are really into this as some sort of revenge porn.

[gw5263]

No I did not follow through with it. I realized that he was not the problem. It could have been anyone. If it had not been him it would have been someone else. The problem was and is us and our failures. Turning him in was purley revenge motivated and would have served no purpose in the end. All that i would have accomplished is driving my wife further away due to anger. The outcome did not justify the act. In the end, I would have gotten my wife back and ruined thirty years of work, or she would have ran to him and his life would still be in ruins.

I blamed him for the longest time, him only. I spent valuable time trying to force him to drop her,and run away. Trying to get him to have no contact through threats of exposure, any thing my desparate mind could concieve, Time i could have spent working on myself and my family. I was obsessed with making him pay for what he did.

He will have to live with what he did and continues to do, just as i would have had to live with destroying him. I know every husband would love the chance to make the OM pay, and to be honset, i wanted just that. I could have ended his career and ruined any prospects of a good job when he got kicked out. I am not judge jury and executioner. Everybody pays a price for the wrongs they commit against others. He did not hold a gun to her head and make her enter an EA with him. She went willingly. I do still hate him with all my being, i cant seem to get over that aspect, but revenge is not the answer. An old proverb said that when one seeks revenge, one should dig two graves. All revenge does in the end is sap your soul. This A has done a good job of that so why make it any worse? Sorry to those who wanted me to do it, or were living vicariouisly. It just was not in anyone involveds interest. I may be wrong or right. Time will judge me.

[Tread]

My only issue with you not reporting OM was due to the threat made by your W. If you choose not to tell, then let it be based on your morals. Not out of some fear of losing yiur pissed off W. Nothing wrong with being the bigger person. Just don't destroy your evidence. Trust me the WW will worse and will do things that you they weren't capable of doing. The A is just the tip of the iceberg.

[gw5263]

SI Spy,
I posted on your site the reason i came here, and the reason i didnt follow through with turning him in. Sorry if i disappointed any one or let them down. I had a change of heart and mind, thats all. It was nothing anyone did or said, i just decided to fight and wanted to get some different input and ideas, thats all.