How do I get things right?

[sandi2]

I don't see your behavior in the present as the main problem in the m.

I completely agree. Your H has a lot of insecurities and seems to stand in need of relationship skills.

If he uses your ONS as his excuse for inappropriate behavior with other women, he will use the same excuse to find new ways to cause you pain. If he does not have the tools in order to process and go forward in a healthy way, there's that possibility his behavior toward you will get worse.

When he is lashing out at you, how do you usually react to him?

When you are in public together, does he show disrespectful or inappropriate behavior toward you?

I'm glad you had a good night. IMO, I think he will go just so far doing things for your feelings, before he rebels b/c of his own pain. Your needs and feelings are important, and he looks at his needs just as importantly.

The male ego is very fragile, and his inappropriate behavior with other women could be two-fold. It feeds his ego and it hurts you. Both of you suffer, so.......what can be done? Hopefully, we can help offer a few ideas for problem solving solutions.

The ONS took place over a year ago. Why no MC during that time, when you say he would go if you asked?

What type of attitude do you have around him when he is saqys angry things at you? Are you the long suffering W? Do you feel you deserve to be punished? Do you get angry at him, and if so......how does it show?

[Lovelyp]

Forgiveness is a learned skill imo. How was forgiveness modeled in your childhood?

And in your h's?

I was raised in a family where people would easily forgive. I think on that I am ok that he even says I am too forgiving. On the other hand he was raised in a family where people would hold grudges and withdraw. I can see that he makes an effort and even complained about how his family was. He is generally a forgiving person. On what I did I also feel i should give him time to process and take his time as this is something that's really painful. We went for MC last November and stopped because I thought the counsellor.

Also his "reasoning" about flirting with OW's is just self serving justification of inappropriate behavior on his part. It is saying he still feels insecure so he gets to hurt you b/c that is how he gets on a level playing field.

Which means he does not know how to lift himself AND OR he wants to hurt or control you.

How long does he think he gets to punish you (b/c that is exactly what it is)?

I feel he feels threatened by me and feels insecure. The ONS did not help because when he talked to the OM did not make it a secret that he really wants to be with me but I hadcut all contact. In fact he even wanted to cause problems to make us to divorce. I guess H feels so threatened by that too. He wants us to work but he wants to be sure that I am not attracted to this OM or that I dont compare him to the OM. He even mentioned that he is afraid of loosing me and had some dreams about that. I guess I need to keep reassuring him and showing him that I regret what I did.

So he met your needs for an evening. Good.

The "math" of this is

consistent change + sufficient time = change to believe in.

maybe you can do 30 day chunks of time before monitoring for a change. I am putting the focus on HIS behavior more than yours.

I don't see your behavior in the present as the main problem in the m. Do you?[/color]

[/quote]

So far he has been consistent and doing a lot to make me feel good. He has not insulted or shouted at me or said anything bad. He has been listening and trying his best to meet my emotional needs. I have been happy for the past few days and I pray he continues to work on himself.
I used to shout back and say bad things in response when he shouts. I would react in bad ways and then disrespect him. I will work on how I communicate and respect him. I have been lacking in that area and have been worsening the problems.

[Lovelyp]

Thanks Sandi2 for your comments. I really appreciate the advice.

When he is lashing out at you, how do you usually react to him?

I used to also react in anger and say things that I would regret. I used to make him feel bad too. I disrespected him and I would try to tell him he pushed me to the ONS by his neglect. I said so much to hurt him too. I feel what lacked was skill on how to work on the marriage and conflict resolution.

When you are in public together, does he show disrespectful or inappropriate behavior toward you?

No, not at all. He has behaves like a gentle man in public and in front of our D.

The ONS took place over a year ago. Why no MC during that time, when you say he would go if you asked?

We went immediately for MC and he wanted us to continue. I did not find it helpful because the councellor was so slow and trying to get us to continue coming. I did not think he was that good.
We also went to the same Counsellor for a week in November and I still did not feel he was good. He told me that he was good but its just that we want quick solution. H said when dealing with infidelity unfortunately no amount of MC can undo the pain because they focus on acceptance. He felt given the circumstances he was helping a lot but unfortunately H wished we had gone before the ONS. Past 2 months he was trying to pay for me to go for IC.

What type of attitude do you have around him when he is saqys angry things at you? Are you the long suffering W? Do you feel you deserve to be punished? Do you get angry at him, and if so......how does it show?

I react so badly. i would shout and make him feel unwanted. I need to deal with my anger and also start respecting him

[sandi2]

Okay, I think you are beginning to open up and telling us more about feelings & reactions in the relationship. What can you do to stop the emotional punches between you and H? You can take a big 180 degree here.

Thanks for being honest and revealing more. Has there been other painful areas in the MR?

When he flirts with other women, what type of reaction does he see in you?

[Lovelyp]

What can you do to stop the emotional punches between you and H? You can take a big 180 degree here.

Yes 180 works. So far what works is just detaching, keeping myself busy, not initiating conersations and avoiding chats works. I would also not initiate ML. I noticed when I started the 180 he starts to pursue me, is nice and in the past week or so he is communicating well and doing everythi g to try to meet my needs. He starts to play my favourite programs and watch with me peacefully and enjoying.

Thanks for being honest and revealing more. Has there been other painful areas in the MR?

The problems we have had before are related to this. He communicates with women but I trust him completely. I have even seen some women making advances to him and he is not interested in anything sexual. He has strict boundaries and is always suspicious of women. I just feel disrespected because most times these women start behaving funny around me. Some end up disappointed and understands that he is happy with me and start being respectful and communicating more with me.

When we went for MC he mentioned the following issues:
1.i disrespect him.
2.I'm not honest - related to the A. I told him when we started working together with the OM but when it got to the A or ONS I got quiet.
3.I don't allow him to lead.
4. I nag a lot and say bad things that make him less confident as a husband
5. I neglect household duties- my work hours more flexible but I don't do house chores
6. I don't like his friends
7. He says I have too much pride and I am unwilling to compromise
8. I don't put boundaries in my interaction with men. He says when we were dating I only had male friends and no female friends so I had the ONS because I get too comfortable around men and share things that make me vulnerable.
9. I don't take marriage seriously and behave like I'm still dating


Issues I raised:
1. He is not affectionate
2. He stonewalls a lot. He bottles his feelings only to explode and say many bad things
3. No non sexual intimacy
4. He ignores my feelings when he has female friends.
5. He rarely initiates ML



[quotes=sandi2]
When he flirts with other women, what type of reaction does he see in you?
[/quote]
I used to nag about it. Now when he talks to OW I ignore him and avoid talking to him about it.

[sandi2]

How can you change the complaints on his list? And, to you agree with what says about it?

[Lovelyp]

I agree with some of the issues raised but I can understand why he listed some. The other issues came up because he was so angry abt the A and was trying to paint a very negative picture of me to the therapist. I disagree about honesty, that I have pride, don't take marriage seriously and that I don't put boundaries with men.

Abt not having boundaries with friends
Before we got married I had close male friends and never discussed anything abt my R or personal stuff. In fact I don't discuss marriage or relationship problems with friends because some may be jealous and give bad advice or subjective advice. I gave up all friends of the opposite sex when we got married. I just stopped contact slowly and when they contacted me I would openly respond to them. Among my close friends there is one who had talked about having feelings for me but he respected my relationship with my H (we were still dating then). I minimized contact with him even though we had been friends for 3 years and were close. It was so difficult to give up that friendship but I had to do it for the sake of my marriage. I was not pressured by H. In marriage I never had any male friends.

Having pride and not taking marriage seriously
Over the years I would assess myself and try to change to be a better wife. I would buy books and I changed a lot. I was the only one trying to improve the M and would be the one who initiate conversation after a fight. I would humble myself and apologies even he is wrong. I got fed up because my needs are not met and he would tell me he can do better and I would tell him if he wants a D it's ok. So that he interpreted as not taking M seriously

Neglecting household duties
From the day we married I never used to do much but over the years I have tried to improve. I have a problem of extreme fatigue and during non work days I am extremely tired. I struggled to wake up and even when I had the baby he was the one who would wake up and take care of the baby. He would always encourage me not to bother abt it. On weekends he is the one who works up to make food and I sleep in and hr happily does that. Him mentioning it on MC was out of anger only. I do other duties like laundry, ironing, cooking (sometimes he helps too).
Now I make an effort to clean more but I am not coping but I try my best and he is supportive.

I allow him to lead. He says though he feels this is a challenge for me and it will take a bit of time.

He still complains abt disrespect but I try to respect him. He says when we argue I don't talk to him like he is the H. I belittle him through words I say. Now I don't argue or nag. I avoid any arguments and when he talks I validate and listen more

I am doing 180 and it's helping a lot. So far we communicate well and I respect his feelings and he does too. Some days he has so much resentment and I give space. When he has thoughts of the A he struggles and I don't know how to help him feel better. He doesn't tell me but I can tell because he gets too quiet and withdrawn. We sleep on same bed. How can I help on days like these?

[sandi2]

When he has thoughts of the A he struggles and I don't know how to help him feel better. He doesn't tell me but I can tell because he gets too quiet and withdrawn. We sleep on same bed. How can I help on days like these?

I suggest you not smother him on these days. Let him lead in the area of affection. You may need to be more transparent on those days, and stay close to home. Don't bring up the subject, or try to get him to talk about his feelings. You can present a picture of contentment. He has to work through some of this in his own way. Keep telling yourself it will eventually pass.

To be completely honest, I am somewhat confused
about how to help, b/c I'm not sure what it is you want. Your initial post made him sound bad, and very hard to live with, but then you switch and make it sound as if things are pretty good. So, I am at a loss. Maybe 25 will more helpful.

You said you don't get enough sex & physical affection. Have you read The Sexually Starved Marriage by MWD?

I keep hoping others will jump on the wagon, here, and help you out.

Is there something you are holding back?

[Lovelyp]

I suggest you not smother him on these days. Let him lead in the area of affection. You may need to be more transparent on those days, and stay close to home. Don't bring up the subject, or try to get him to talk about his feelings. You can present a picture of contentment. He has to work through some of this in his own way. Keep telling yourself it will eventually pass.

Thanks for the advice. I really appreciate your comments

To be completely honest, I am somewhat confused
about how to help, b/c I'm not sure what it is you want. Your initial post made him sound bad, and very hard to live with, but then you switch and make it sound as if things are pretty good. So, I am at a loss. Maybe 25 will more helpful.

To be honest I am confused too. There are days I really felt like leaving and he was shouting and insulting me a lot.
I think so far this is the longest we have gone without him insluting me and calling me names and threaterning divorce. The past few months were hell and I really wanted to leave, the only reason I stayed was I didnt want him to tell my family as we are not that close.
The situation changed when I started DBing and dataching. Before then I had tried everything, apologising and all but then when he starts yelling at me I would also react. What made seem worse was that we were in a vicious cycle and my reaction to his outburts would make things worse because I also felt his treatment contributed to me having the ONS. He only started to communicate after I confessed my ONS/ A but for years he was emotionally distant, not initiating sex and zero affection. After the confession he completely changed and would start to get closer to me but would have days of attacking me and when I wanted a D he would stop the attacks and start bein nice. It was like that since. I think when I started readin here and detachin I manaed to break that cycle.

All the years I was the one initiatin everything (conversation, sex, affection and even suggesting activities etc) with little cooperation from him. The ONS was like a wake up to make him change but we were doing everything wrong. Now he comes home early, wants to see me during lunch (some times he is just quiet though), he likes to understand what makes me happy, what I really like him to do in the relationship. On some days when he is struggling with his thouhts I tried to avoid sex and he really gets worse when I do that. I hope you understand and not confused anymore. Please continue to advise me because it has really improved my marriage so far.

I love him so much but in the past he neglected and hurt me so much. He wouldnt listen to my needs and would try to make me feel like I am not good enough. He would verbally abuse me and disregard my emotional and physical needs (I still hate him for that but when I see the change I forget about that). Now I feel so hurt too by the ONS because I feel the OM took advantage of my vulnerability and even the work assignment he was assisting with he didnt do. it was so clear that he pretended because all he wants was to break my M and sadly I allowed him. I am also feeling pain and guilt at the same time. My H was mistreating me BUT I feel he did not deserve that.

There are days I feel so much pain and I feel that I crossed the line and what I did is unforivable and its easier to just D. Most days I feel good and hopeful about the M now.

You said you don't get enough sex & physical affection. Have you read The Sexually Starved Marriage by MWD?

No not yet. We always used to have sex but except that I had to intitate and he wasnt. He would always comply and I would enjoy but it used to make me feel less desirable that I was the one intitating. I would initiate only because that was the only way I could get so close to him. For now we have sex a lot and he insitiates a lot. I dont know whats causin that but its great but would really like physical affection. He is still lacking in that area

I keep hoping others will jump on the wagon, here, and help you out.

Is there something you are holding back?
Nothing that I am aware of. I know that the ONS was all my fault but I just feel so pained about how he sort of pushed me to that by the way he treated me. For years I put so much in this M trying to make it a happy one. I would buy books and read and try my best and he would just ignore that and continue to hurt me through his words and actions. The problem is his actions or inactions may seem so trivial to others who deal with serious problems but his words made me loose confidence in myself and in a ways caused the ONS.Now he tells me what I did is the worst and he trivialises the pain he caused me for years. I have so much pain, guilt and resentment that I need to deal with.

[Lovelyp]

To be completely honest, I am somewhat confused
about how to help, b/c I'm not sure what it is you want. Your initial post made him sound bad, and very hard to live with, but then you switch and make it sound as if things are pretty good. So, I am at a loss. Maybe 25 will more helpful.

Maybe its confusing because I have mixed feelings.
On one hand I know he is a great guy and my controllin messed him up and he retalitates by being extremely mean to me and I had the ONS.Im sort of torn Sandi. Pros:
1. He is a great father.
2. He provides for us and always allows me and D to buy what we want without being restricted. I have access to his salary and he is open because he believes it is his God given duty to provide
3. He is disciplined, very principled that even when women attempt to seduce him he doesnt give in. many have tried. He doesnt drink.
4. He is goal oriented.
5. He is a serious christian. Understands the dangers of sin and practices it.
6. He is my soul mate.I can feel the connection and the love. He is supportive on my career and helps me be the best that I can be


Cons:
1. He is emotionally unavailable
2. He either stone walls or starts to insult me (he did this even before the ONS)
3. He doesnt make efforts to improve M. Instead he shares our problems with his friends. (Only after the ONS he didnt share with friends and organised for us to go for MC sessions and even encouraing me for months to go for IC).
4. He likes to have female friends (I feel they meet his emotional needs and neglect mine)
5.He doesnt try physical affection
6. He is mean, he feels insecure about how I look and when angry he even told me that he wishes I was ugly and unattractive and he wouldnt be able to deal with this. I used to be asked out many times after we married and that bothers him a lot. Now I stopped going to the gym because after the A he is not comfortable though he didnt say is. He is goodlooking with a great body and doesnt even need to exercise but I dont say anything bad to him.

I also am a person who doesnt talk about my problems. I bottle them and dont even say them except to H so maybe I am not clear enough. let me know if you still feel confused.