Rebuilding my life #2

[lcause]

My therapist suggested me to avoid these forums after I told about my recent crash to the rock bottom. It has probably been helping a bit. Just wanted to come here to show appreciation for the people who have commented and let you know I value your input highly. I want to apologize my bad behavior, especially towards you B - if you still read this.

Overall feeling a bit better again. No change in meds, therapy has been helpful. Setting goals and started doing HIIT (30s - 90s rest for 20min). I think it has had an effect on my sleep and I'm inclined to think that prolonged running has actually been detrimental due to cortisol increase. But I'm not an expert; HIIT just feels better afterwards.

Lcause

First of all, sending you a big big virtual hug.

I haven't been on the boards much lately and tend to skim a lot but your posts caught my eye today because they scream out your pain. I am so sorry you're in so much pain.

The fatigue you're describing say classic depression to me. I understand because I've been through this too. May I offer my perspective in case it's any use:

I was severely depressed for a few months this year. I have been clinically depressed before, ten years ago. At that time I was prescribed antidepressants and were on them for 6 months. They helped me function much better, but I swore never again, because I realised that while I stopped feeling the pain, the source of the pain never stopped. The argument is that the antidepressants allow you to cope to address the issues that are creating the imbalance, but I didn't do that - went off in lala-land and glossed over the difficulties that brought me there - therein lies the danger of medication. Pain has a lesson to teach. Take away the pain and you might forget the lesson, or fail to learn it altogether.

My belief is that unless your depression stems from a purely chemical imbalance, eg. postpartum depression, antidepressants will only treat the sympton of the depression and not the cause. The cause here is the mental response to the challenge before you.

On my therapist's advice I tried 3 antidepressants. None worked so I stopped. I don't regret it although it would have given me an easier time of it at the time. I have a neighbour who is in our sitch as well. She is on antidepressants and for a while I was totally envious of her and feeling badly about myself because whenever I saw her she looked bright and sparky whereas I was a gibbering mess. I saw her recently - the spark has worn off. The medication can give you false courage, false optimism.

A friend of my MIL's has been on antidepressants for the same reason for the last 10 years. She doesn't have the courage to look at the pain and work through it. Every time it hurts, she pops a pill. That's her choice. That's not a choice I want to make because to me, that's saying the pain owns her. I am going to own this pain. Pain can be crippling or transformative. You choose whether to live crippled or transformed.

To me, owning the pain is to work through the issues, accept what's happened and move on. It's going to take years. But better some years than the rest of my life sacrificed to the altar of this pain and misery.

I am NOT saying not to take the medication. I am saying that the medication will alleviate your symptoms, but do not expect it to solve your problems. That's the hard work - work which requires you to change how you are approaching your situation.

I speak as someone who recognises your thought processes very well. I hope you don't mind my making this observation, but you and I are negative people. We have negative thought processes. I am battling daily to change this. And I am changing. It is possible. Just this morning I was remembering a reaction I had to some snotty nosed kid a couple of years ago. Now I would totally shrug it off. It was interesting to me - I am becoming a different person.

You are clearly extremely unhappy. Which is understandable given our sitches. But you don't have to stay in this place. To climb out of this black hole, you have to do some re-wiring of your brain. Reframe your thinking, perspectives. It's a struggle. You will essentially have to wrestle with yourself. And nobody is more well-matched to you, than you.

I have a lot of pain still, but I am not unhappy the way I was a few months ago. This has been a revelation to me - you can be in pain but have faith that things will get better. Expect things to get better.

I wonder if you're struggling because you're not quite ready to accept the situation, because this was the case for me. For months I heard the same advice, not only from this board but everyone who knew about my sitch - move on, GAL, practice PMA etc. I understood it intellectually, but not emotionally. Because I wasn't ready. Until I was emotionally ready, it was all just words to me. You must be patient, not just with your sitch, but with yourself. I was getting frustrated with my life all the time - I was doing all the right things, so why weren't things getting better? Why was I still obsessing? Answer - I wasn't ready to let go. So just sit with it and hold on to our ragged obsession for a while, forgive ourselves for doing so, and try again. Just don't get mad at yourself for not doing it already.

For me, I wasn't ready until I hit rock bottom. You will know once you hit rock bottom. It will be the worst place in your life. But I was surprised to experience some relief at the same time - because I recognised I was rock bottom, I knew things couldn't get worse. And once you hit rock bottom, there's no way else but up. One painful inch at a time.

I am looking into reading things about changing how you think. A book I found yesterday is madly fascinating - 'Mental Chemistry'. Only got as far as the first chapter, but wow - the implications for people with negative thinking is nothing short of astounding.

Thank you 2016sux for taking your time and writing to my thread. It means a lot to me and I'll reciprocate your hugs I think you need them too. I am sorry to hear about your depression and pain.

Yes, I agree wholly and completely with your point - A/Ds shouldn't be used as a "gimmick" to only feel better but I still think people might require them to overcome the initial fear/anxiety/mental block so they can actually advance on their path. It is true that some people just accept it and never does any work. My own biggest problem is the negative attitude or feeling of worthlessness. It's hard to motivate myself to do anything because I immediately think it's not going to help me anyways. I might be quitting too fast and it could require a year of hard self-pushing before the effects would be properly enjoyable for myself.

I think most people have incorrectly understood me - my depression/pessimism has been there for ages, not since the BD. Personally, of course on subconscious level I'm still hurt about BD, but the bigger pain comes from the inability to do anything meaningful with my life. That's where it has come from. I view everything so utterly negative - e.g. my education. I feel that it does not help me at all and I spent years for nothing in university. Most people say university is mainly there for you to study how to learn rather than get 100% of the skills required for your job - so far it just doesn't feel that way.

In fact, reconciliation is currently the last thing on my mind. To put it blunt, I don't know if I could ever kiss those lips again that have been wrapped around another guy's thing. It just isn't the same as falling in love with a new girl.

LC, anti-depressants are more art than science. I think what is abundantly clear from your posts is that what you are on right now is NOT WORKING for YOU. So go back to your doctor and get him/ her to CHANGE it to something else.

One of my coworkers spent a year getting that sorted with his doc. They finally got it dialed in and he felt so much better that he decided he didn't need them anymore. He quit cold turkey, which no one should EVER do. Tapering off under the supervision of your doctor is OK, but when you just quit taking A/D's it can alter your body chemistry in dramatic ways. Anyway he spun into terrible mania and depression and ended up hospitalized and out of work for 6 months. He tried going back to his previous prescriptions and they no longer worked. He spent another year with his doctor establishing a new setup that worked for him and he finally got more or less back to normal.

My point is that it can take quite a while to find the right anti-depressant, what works for one person does not work for another and even in some cases like with my coworker, what worked previously may not work later. You clearly do not feel "right" or "normal" and you should by now, so go back to your doc!

Thanks for pointing this out AS and this is what I've understood as well. However my doc doesn't seem to be willing to (at least yet) go further. I need to rely on private sector healthcare which is expensive. So, I keep pushing and really trying.

very good advice you got there Lcause. Ypu will be fine. make a decision on whether or not to go on meds for depression but also work on yourself. We need to learn how to change our thoughts. The greatest battle we have is managing thoughts because every bad action comes from our thoughts.

Thanks I sure hope so too. I am already on meds (SSRI) but I think I hit some kind of a plateau after the first month or so and they don't seem to work similarly anymore. Also, I'm really not that keen on the side effects of SSRIs (e.g. emotional indifference/not caring about anything).

[quote=lcause]You should know they never do tests or the tests aren't accurate.


I don't want to belabor the ^^^point, but I was tested for depression after my dad died. I assumed I was simply in grief and that it would resolve in time. But after my youngest asked me if I would "always be sad", I made an appointment with a psychiatrist.

He handed me a sheet of questions and discussed each one at length. Told me I scored 17/20 for major depressive episode.

Tests do exist. (Yes, LC I'm sure you'd score similarly.) My point is not to make you wrong, but to suggest a lot of confirmation bias & so maybe your outlook has that too.

LC, you said your doctor is not helping you and that you would like to see another. You don't need me to agree (but I sure do).

Just explain what has not worked, and what you are looking for, and maybe maybe what you think.

Also, any chance you'd consider ECT? It's very different than it was in the 60's.


I feel down always. The only way I feel "happy" is to either do something for someone else or convince myself that I'm a good dude. That's just shallow and never lasts.

Yes you said the "only way" you feel happy is if the recipient praises and thanks you for the task you did.
Yes you say that's shallow (b/c it relies on external validation from others) and cannot last unless they are praising you nonstop 24/7. Agreed. So that part is clear.

Convincing yourself that you deserve and can be happy, seems like a worthy goal we all have and all work at. Can you work on believing it?

What about that workshop I mentioned to you, in Philadelphia? Do you recall that? I have flown in from Alaska, Texas, California, to help participants so I obviously think it's worth it. Several DBers have gone and all said they got a lot out of it. "Life changing" is a phrase used often.

Sometimes it takes continuous work to make a breakthrough instead of just weekly T, even with a great T.

I would assume meds are going to be part of your recovery anyway, and that's fine. Been there, done that.


I can't start doing anything. Even doing dishes has felt a task I can't complete. F#ck, if there's a picture I need to hang to the wall it might seem like an impossible task for me.


This ^^resonates more than you may know.

FWIW, I'm living alone for the first time in my life. My mom's painting is still not hung up and I have not filed the ton of papers in my "office" even though I finally got a filing cabinet --my sports car was too small to pack it so I just didn't get one till my sister forced me.

I've been here for months. Small things seem to defeat me ("oh, I don't have filing tabs...SO I can't do the paperwork for the divorce...so all those papers in that room will be....there..."

"Oh, Mom's painting is heavy and requires 2 people to hang...and only my dog is here at the moment so unless she gets opposable thumbs soon...guess I'll just leave it where it is in my bedroom on the floor, instead of asking one of my loved ones to help...")

If not for the seizures I had last fall, I'd for sure be on AD's. In lieu of them or in addition, I have a great T and LC, the hardest thing is that I have committed to taking her advice even when I absolutely do NOT feel like it. Which is mostly the case
It's a classic case of Being Stuck.

No, LC, pushing myself out there is not a "Cure". OMG I really get that. The "up" I feel is temporary but isn't that always the case?

I mean, my mind races with different thoughts and I don't consistently think "one thought" b/c we are in dynamic lives. No such thing as being happy, always.

Our moods never last - we encounter new tasks, weather, events, people, etc.
I think happy people are resilient and resilience is a skill we can develop like a muscle, we can exercise it.

Sheryl Sandberg cites research that supports this theme in her book "Option B". (She's the Facebook CEO who lost her h suddenly, 2 years ago.)


LC, I'm still very hurt and angry and I have to redirect my thoughts (CBT) daily and sometimes hourly. I was married to h for 2/3 of my life. Marriage is a hard habit to break.

LC, we have a bit more in common than you realize. Maybe it's b/c I'm older and the severe depression I had when my dad died, illuminated my path to healing.


The trigger for me getting help was my then 4 y/o d. Such a sweet little one, like yours is.

You do have little ones who need you to show them what it's like to be hurt deeply, and to heal and recover anyhow.

If you don't think or want to do this for yourself, do it for them.

Since you derive happiness from doing for others, Do for your kids. In their way they will thank you, and you don't want to go on in life knowing you taught them that depression was "just the way it is" for them.

(When I imagine my kid's in their own heartbreak, and then imagine their defeat, or worse... I shudder. And I get my a$$ in gear. If that helps you, use it.)


Know that Someday each of your children will face a setback, or suffer heartbreak.

Show them how to heal. Show them that happiness is worth creating.

You can do this.

Thanks 25. I meant tests done on neurotransmitter levels. The cheaper tests are not reliable and the more expensive brain scans etc. are not conducted unless there's a suspicion of something like Parkinson's or similar, at least not on public sector. Same goes for ECT. You too seem a bit convinced that this feeling is due to BD but I don't think it is. I'm mostly interested in fixing myself rather than my marriage and that is what is frustrating me.

I'll try to convince myself to be worth of happiness of course. But until I stop feeling worthless otherwise (i.e. actually get a meaningful job or at least find my passion which to strive for), I don't think I can achieve that. I do agree with you on the resilience. Not every day is filled with happiness nor should be.

From your points, it sounds like you've been feeling the same way, yet you have been able to act and do. I don't know what it is but maybe it is that I'm not being able simply give myself TIME. Maybe that is the underlying issue to all my problems. I want the fix right now and if I don't get it I start to feel frustrated and the anxiety, stress and even physical sensations (legs get weaker etc) kick in. Currently I do feel that the chronic sleep deprivation has had a big effect on me. Maybe I really do need to understand it's fully over so I don't feel the urgency of seeing the results... I don't know. Subconscious is a rather amazing and at the same time very demoralizing thing.

Trust me, my kids are currently the only thing I'm really trying to fix myself. If I didn't have kids, I would have probably just forfeited immediately on trying to get better and probably leaned on taking drugs or alcohol. Kids are the reason I go to therapy because I'm just not feeling worthy enough otherwise.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think anyone would notice that I'm severely depressed outside. I said about it in work and people were jaw-dropped. They always kept me as this outgoing social guy (because I talk, joke, entertain, kid around, am energetic etc at work). The same goes with my kids, I'm much more playful (like on a completely another level) in comparison to my XW. I also talk to S in affectionate manner a lot more than my XW does/did. I think I got that from my mother since she is still at the age of 60 crawling on the floor with S and having some sort of crawling competitions. She also plays with D for hours and hours every time.