Still here. Still not detached... (Part 2)

[Chris73]

Thanks Gordie. This is what I'm trying to do. The nesting arrangement makes it hard. Once we move to our new schedule, I'll only have to see her once every 2 weeks for the kid exchange. The other exchanges will happen before and after school.

[25yearsmlc]

You wrote:



If she came to me tomorrow and said she wanted to try again, I'd be at a loss for how to react. There so much work to do and so much hurt to get over. Sometimes I think that I could put the past aside if she really wanted to work on it, but other times I feel like too much damage has been done.

THIS^^^^ is a dilemma most of us face at some point. In a way, it's borrowing a problem from the future that we don't really have. And in a way, it's protecting our egos so we can imagine rebuffing them, so that we are not the rejected parties.

And yet, often there is within us a growing sense that there is simply too much wreckage to undo. Too much seen, to be unseen, and too much known now, to be unknown.

I believe time is the big revealer. Unless we force a decision b/c we cannot tolerate ambiguity anymore.




I realize this is assuming a lot, but I can't ever envision a day when she swallows her pride and approaches me with true remorse and a desire to fix things. It's just not her MO. I think she'd rather leave it all behind, unresolved, and focus on something new.


although we all play a part in getting here, which we must own,

* WAS often seem hell bent on not seeing the damage THEY caused...

and that makes it really hard for the LBS to imagine the seismic change within a WAS happening, let alone the persistent amount of effort required from the WAS, and whatever humility it would also require...

so maybe, just maybe, seeing this^^^ in its' true form with all the implications of it,

can free us to accept and let go??

So we can't go back to the way things were. But we can't move forward until we're out of each other's lives. How do you DB this? What else is there to do but GAL?


No time machines available so you're right, no going back to what we had (or thought we had) and nothing to help us zoom forward to what we hoped we were working towards.

You can move forward with them still in your life - unless you plan on waiting around in limbo until the last child finishes college. It requires a lot of detachment and I don't know a way to detach other than GAL.

One thing - don't make decisions about your marriage based on your spouse's potential as a partner, but based on them as they are.

Also requires time, the revealer.
Then decide.


I feel happier when she's not around and I feel optimistic about my life without her. I enjoy my free time, and my time alone with the kids. I have a lot to look forward to without her.

is this^^ all due to reduced tension, or what?

BUT... I would never have chosen this path for our lives. How do I continue to stand for my marriage while at the same time find a way to accept the reality of divorce, heal and move on...?


Have you found a DivorceCare group around you? They have them all over and they ask these very questions in a healthy supportive setting.

Standing for the marriage is not you emotionally or socially standing still. And You need to heal regardless of what else happens.

Hang in there

[MoveFrwd]

I really want this to end now. I don't think I'm DB'ing anymore.

So what are you going to do differently then?

[Chris73]

((25))

Just want to say how much I appreciate all the time you've taken to respond to my threads. It's like I have my own personal DB coach! I hope to be able to return the favor to someone else one day when I'm further down this path and (hopefully) wiser.

I really want this to end now. I don't think I'm DB'ing anymore.

So what are you going to do differently then?

I read this almost like a trick question. What IS there to do differently other than GAL while continuing to detach, validate, set boundaries, and be a good dad? The only difference is whether or not I've fully let go in my heart. And I think this just happens on its own as time passes.

I suppose I just have to tell myself that it's ok to decide NOT to decide what to do if she comes back. That's a bridge that doesn't need to be crossed until we come to it.

[Chris73]

Just finished a 90-minute "table discussion" with my W. I feel like I've been run over by a truck. The full impact of breaking up a family doesn't really hit you until you go through the details. W and I negotiated through all of the financials and came up with numbers that we both agree on.

It wasn't until we started talking about dividing up the holidays that things got difficult. Every time my W started talking about how she's going to be on her own, looking for a new place, furnishing it, etc. she would start to cry. After this happened a few times I looked her in the eyes and said, "You don't HAVE to do this. We can put the breaks on and try to find another way to make us both happy." But she didn't respond. I don't know why I always feel the need to remind her that I don't want to get divorced. Sometimes I think she forgets because I'm being so compliant with the divorce arrangements.

Anyway, the discussion continued and we basically settled everything: her buyout price for the house, child support amount, division of retirement assets, shared custody schedule, holiday schedule.

Now she's gone and I have the pleasure of trying to concentrate on work until I need to pick up the kids from school. God I need a drink. Is 10 am too early for bourbon?!

[25yearsmlc]

Just finished a 90-minute "table discussion" with my W. I feel like I've been run over by a truck. The full impact of breaking up a family doesn't really hit you until you go through the details.

You are Not kidding. I'm confident both h & i underestimated the "gross" factor. It's horrific to me.


W and I negotiated through all of the financials and came up with numbers that we both agree on.

I'm very impressed.


It wasn't until we started talking about dividing up the holidays that things got difficult. Every time my W started talking about how she's going to be on her own, looking for a new place, furnishing it, etc. she would start to cry.


After this happened a few times I looked her in the eyes and said, "You don't HAVE to do this. We can put the breaks on and try to find another way to make us both happy." But she didn't respond.


I think you are done reminding her. But make sure your tone isn't a punitive one "I'll show you! See??"

I don't know why I always feel the need to remind her that I don't want to get divorced. Sometimes I think she forgets because I'm being so compliant with the divorce arrangements.

She has not forgotten. MAYBE she's simply upset about the cost of a choice she is making. OR maybe she thinks you'd hold this over her head like the sword of Damocles, or that things are too far gone, so that she'd never be able to recover from it.

All you can "do" about that^^, is be kind (not doormat) and polite. No more blindingly obvious statements like you do "not have to do" this. Something about that comment strikes me as not the way you wanted it to sound. I'm speculating, obviously.


Nothing to do about that now. Let it go.


Anyway, the discussion continued and we basically settled everything: her buyout price for the house, child support amount, division of retirement assets, shared custody schedule, holiday schedule.

I'm so relieved for you. At this point, the money is by far the hardest part for me b/c h has truly irrational numbers in his head - or so his L claims.


Now she's gone and I have the pleasure of trying to concentrate on work until I need to pick up the kids from school. God I need a drink. Is 10 am too early for bourbon?!

well obviously that depends on where you live...

I understand the desire to numb all this. Sometimes I think in some form I did that during the m the past several years. No, not with alcohol (much) But I refused to see things that would invalidate my choice to stay.

IF that applies to you at all, consider it. My T says the only way through all this to the other side, is through it.

I wonder though. Seriously, it sounds so obvious and true that we accept it.

I know my h has not worked thru his emotions. He had/has OW and claims/ed he is "in love" and "SO HAPPY!" Was mad that our kids did not embrace his adulterous affair. (Seriously).

Of course that all sukks for me to hear, but in my head I do know it sounds weird.
Forget the moral part, just consider the decision to end a long m and then to be or act surprised at the costs. WTF?

**the problem with all this^^^ is that we project our values/personalities and moral compass onto our spouses. I'm not saying they are "wrong" and we are "Right" so much as
that we are baffled by their choices b/c we would not make those choices.

It's time consuming to keep pondering the obvious.

Make sense?

[BluWave]

After this happened a few times I looked her in the eyes and said, "You don't HAVE to do this. We can put the breaks on and try to find another way to make us both happy." But she didn't respond. I don't know why I always feel the need to remind her that I don't want to get divorced. Sometimes I think she forgets because I'm being so compliant with the divorce arrangements

I'm sorry, I have got to add something here. This is completely wrong and backwards in your thinking. I think this is one more piece of proof that you need to tackle your MNG issues (which you obvi avoided responding to my post entirely about). She absolutely, more than 100%, knows that you don't want a divorce. This is part of the problem, Chris! I might be wrong (and I'll admit that I have lost track of your thread) but are you not the poster that challenged the DB philosophy and wanted to friend her back into the M? (more MNG behavior that does not work). You kept it up and she still left, right?

Look, I am not suggesting you play games, but until you actually DROP THE ROPE and your W thinks she has lost you waiting around, that you have had enough of her BS, and that you are moving right along in life without her, she will not for one moment look back at you as an option! She doesn't respect (or want to be with) a man that she can walk all over and out on (him and his family) and then he sits there telling her to please don't leave me! So all of her tears and waterworks--while she may actually feel sadness or may just be manipulating you--are still not indications that she wants to be M to you or wants to come back. These are 2 entirely different things that you have got to separate. Her sadness does not translate into her wanting you!

Sorry for the 2*4. You have been here awhile, but you do not want to accept what people have been telling you. Why? ... And sorry if you are the wrong Chris and I am off about that. If so, kindly strike that and carry on :-)

Blu

[25yearsmlc]

just to add a note about confusing their (apparent) sadness with their desire to recon

I miss intimacy a lot, but that's not to say I want my h back. I wish my kids were still in an intact family, but I don't want my h in the mix.

[MoveFrwd]

[quote=Chris73]I really want this to end now. I don't think I'm DB'ing anymore.

The only difference is whether or not I've fully let go in my heart. And I think this just happens on its own as time passes.

Im not really sure there is a difference. Thats why I asked the question. A lot of people on here say they are giving up or are done with DBing. But I can never figure out what that means? To me, once people "give up", thats when DBing actually starts.

[Chris73]

After this happened a few times I looked her in the eyes and said, "You don't HAVE to do this. We can put the breaks on and try to find another way to make us both happy." But she didn't respond. I don't know why I always feel the need to remind her that I don't want to get divorced. Sometimes I think she forgets because I'm being so compliant with the divorce arrangements

I'm sorry, I have got to add something here. This is completely wrong and backwards in your thinking. I think this is one more piece of proof that you need to tackle your MNG issues (which you obvi avoided responding to my post entirely about). She absolutely, more than 100%, knows that you don't want a divorce. This is part of the problem, Chris! I might be wrong (and I'll admit that I have lost track of your thread) but are you not the poster that challenged the DB philosophy and wanted to friend her back into the M? (more MNG behavior that does not work). You kept it up and she still left, right?

Look, I am not suggesting you play games, but until you actually DROP THE ROPE and your W thinks she has lost you waiting around, that you have had enough of her BS, and that you are moving right along in life without her, she will not for one moment look back at you as an option! She doesn't respect (or want to be with) a man that she can walk all over and out on (him and his family) and then he sits there telling her to please don't leave me! So all of her tears and waterworks--while she may actually feel sadness or may just be manipulating you--are still not indications that she wants to be M to you or wants to come back. These are 2 entirely different things that you have got to separate. Her sadness does not translate into her wanting you!

Sorry for the 2*4. You have been here awhile, but you do not want to accept what people have been telling you. Why? ... And sorry if you are the wrong Chris and I am off about that. If so, kindly strike that and carry on :-)

Blu

No Blu. You've got the right guy and I appreciate the 2 x 4. It means that you actually care enough to take the time to hit me with it

I didn't respond to your post about the MNG book simply because there were a lot of responses on my thread that I was catching up on that day. And I had addressed the MNG book and syndrome several pages back.

You're also correct that I didn't follow the advice from the vets on the board a year ago. I was getting info and advice from many different sources (this board being one of them) and I honestly felt that the approach I was taking in trying to reconnect with her was a good one and to a certain extent promoted by the DB coaches who work with MWD.

But you're right, things got worse and she pulled further away. And I came back to the board, hat in hand, ready for the onslaught of "I told you so"s, but people have been very accepting.