WW Part 2

[25yearsmlc]

I don't know what or how you asked your d, (putting them on the spot isn't right either)

but would it be better to commit to less conflict in the house, regardless?

And please, please realize that what you DO will have exponentially more impact than what you say.

MODEL restraint and calm, even if you are nuts inside

25years -

Correction

WW said "d's want to stay in the house with just her there"
D17 stated that's not what D17 said

[Raysd6]

25years -

Agree not right to put D on the spot.

I'm trying to model restraint and calm now after I joined this site. I haven't had or initiated any P/A texts with WW since I first posted. This week I've really only initiated contact regarding DD's or financial matters.

I'm also trying to regain WW's respect as I've been the A typical Nice Guy conflict avoider peacekeeper don't rock the boater pretty much our whole marriage. Sandi refers to it as retrieving my man parts back from her because she pretty much controlled everything in the MR. I never properly led the MR or the family.

I'm somewhat conflicted because I don't want her to be away from DD's but at the same time I shouldn't have to leave the house because I'm not the one who:

Wants to separate/divorce
Pursued multiple OM's while living under this roof

I've already told her I'm not leaving...now if I capitulate I'm sacrificing my convictions and beliefs just to keep the peace and that will cause me to lose respect for myself which in turn will cause her to lose even more respect for me.

[Raysd6]

One more thing...I plan on attending a CODA meeting close to our house. My IC suggested Al Anon as well but I know I'm codependent upon WW which could be where most of my anger and P/A comes from. You know the fear of losing the one you've become codependent on.

Right now I'm reading:

NMMNG
Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway
DR when I can
7 Habits of Highly Effective People

[Raysd6]

Another thought regarding: "The girls do not want us there(the house) together...that's not an option "

I've never told WW that she is not welcome in the house. I've made it clear that she is welcome in the house anytime she wants. Just that I'm not the one who wants the S/D therefore I'm not leaving the house.

I also don't think that the adults should let the kids dictate the terms of a relationship.

[25yearsmlc]

25years -

Agree not right to put D on the spot.

I'm trying to model restraint and calm now after I joined this site. I haven't had or initiated any P/A texts with WW since I first posted. This week I've really only initiated contact regarding DD's or financial matters.


Good! Try to watch the tone as well, like avoid saying "Did you pay the bill YET??" or "you were supposed to..." because that's just an unneeded jab.

Make sense? I tell you these things b/c we all need reminders of what we could say, instead of just what "not" to say.

I'm also trying to regain WW's respect as I've been the A typical Nice Guy conflict avoider peacekeeper don't rock the boater pretty much our whole marriage.

The NG syndrome is sort of a misnomer b/c it's more about wanting to look like a nice guy rather than being one for real. As for respect, I think if you show you respect yourself and not "trying to regain" it from someone who has a lot of resentment at the moment might just backfire.

Plus that^^ is all about you getting her to give you something rather than you working on you. There is a dynamic in your interactions (hers too) in which there is an undertone of competitive resentment and pain in both of you. Dashed hopes and the desire to hurt our partner CAN come from the fact that we are hurt and our way of showing them how we feel is to make them hurt, too.

someone has to stop and break the cycle. And you are the one here working on the m, not her. So yeah, it's on you.

Do you see what I mean?


Sandi refers to it as retrieving my man parts back from her because she pretty much controlled everything in the MR. I never properly led the MR or the family.

That is one way of seeing it (I'm not saying I disagree either)

But that's not what I'm referring to. **Please put your helmet on b/c I'm going to deliver a 2 x 4 to you, okay?**

I think your remarks to your wife were mean spirited, like brow beating her with the "look in the mirror to see who ruined our family" comment. Ray, that is so NOT likely to attract her back, I hope you can see that now.

MWD teaches that when we learn to change our end of it - b/c thats all we control then by it's nature, the dynamic and relationship changes. What a great opportunity for you to show with ACTIONS Not Words, that you are a changed, better man.

your wife feels & believes many things about your including that you "will never change"...So there is ONE thing you can change and she will have to see..
you ARE CHANGING!

She believes the R and dynamics cannot change and you are all destined to walk on egg shells in between outbursts that wound you both deeply.

YOU can change that (and model what a man of strength and honor does when he feels strongly about something but maintains a respectful tone with his wife.

It's damn hard to scream at a Calm person, in control of their emotions and expressing what they feel/think - a calm person willing to walk away if the talk is not productive and respectfully Leave

BE calm and BE respectful so your wife can learn what it looks like. It's not weak, it's strong. The calmer person in an argument is the one with the power, the screamer or person who throws "truth darts" is the angrier person who is not actively listening, but is waiting to launch a dart as soon as there is a pause. The yelling person is not in control and is just having a tantrum

I don't think it's about you being too wimpy. Maybe you did not do what you wanted and "gave in" but you also resented it and lashed out.

So, what do you think "properly leading" a family means? Also, Are you guys regular church goers?



I'm somewhat conflicted because I don't want her to be away from DD's but at the same time I shouldn't have to leave the house because I'm not the one who:

Wants to separate/divorce
Pursued multiple OM's while living under this roof

I hope you are not throwing that in her face in your talks. IT's all blame. YES SHE is the one who wants out but you want her to stay, not take on your anger.

Do you know what I'm saying?

I've already told her I'm not leaving...now if I capitulate I'm sacrificing my convictions and beliefs just to keep the peace and that will cause me to lose respect for myself which in turn will cause her to lose even more respect for me.

I wasn't suggesting you leave.

You need to keep the peace better no matter what you do or what she does. She cannot MAKE you fight. But she will Not be bullied or cajoled back into the m.
The power struggle between you - Drop the Rope.

Choose your battles VERY wisely and only then, (not letting pride or jealousy be the cause; but your daughters, or the financial stability of the home and how your w treats you, ---those are important)

And IF you end up filing, that may not be the end of the m.
(Just don't file to "wake her up" )but only when you wish to end things.

In California 1/3 of divorces filed, are never completed. A chunk of those people reconcile or Sometimes the freedom to see the grass shows that it's green where it gets the most water.

Sorry but it makes me envision such a power struggle it's as if you are digging in your heels and grabbing the d's in to keep score.

When you detach better, you won't have so many conflicts or snipey remarks and she won't have to walk on egg shells...

the calmer the home can be, going forward the less need for someone moving out.

Do you have a pull sofa or extra bed in the girls room?

I'm falling asleep now so, I''l wrap this up.

Maybe If you could detach more, *(gone a lot) AND in better then maybe tensions would lower in the home, and your wife would not be squirming to have you out, would she?

You can do this.

[25yearsmlc]

Another thought regarding: "The girls do not want us there(the house) together...that's not an option "

I've never told WW that she is not welcome in the house. I've made it clear that she is welcome in the house anytime she wants. Just that I'm not the one who wants the S/D therefore I'm not leaving the house.

I also don't think that the adults should let the kids dictate the terms of a relationship.

I think the kids should be asked what they need from you.

Not whether to leave or who. But if you two keep the power struggles going, things won't go well. make sense?

[MoveFrwd]

We're also supposed to start family counseling as WW's drinking has caused a fair amount of alienation from our DD's. So between her EA's and her drinking our family is very broken.

Im just starting on your thread, but this caught my attention.

Im not giving her a free pass. Of course, she's doing things that I would judge are wrong. But so far in this thread, you have been very focused on what she is doing wrong.

What about when you look in the mirror? While you didnt make these choices for her, some of the choices you did make have been a part of what the brought the situation here. What kinds of things are you working on improving?

All the while letting it be known that I don't do divorce.

What do you mean 'you dont do divorce'? What is your alternative - chaining your W up in the basement? At some point, if she files, youre going to have to...do divorce. I would realign your thinking. When I talked with my DB coach, she told me that the following should be my mantra (now, this is a few years ago, so I may have the exact wording wrong).

I dont believe that divorce is the solution to our problems, but I love and respect you enough to move forward with it if you so choose.

Think about how those words are different from saying:
- Divorce isnt the solution to our problems
- I dont do divorce

[MoveFrwd]

WW: I want to go back to the original agreement where I stay here during the week and you're here on the weekends
Me: No. I want 50/50...week on week off
WW: Well I don't have a place to stay and you do
Me: Not my problem you're the one who wants to D
WW: (angrily) Time for me to go then

I would say here is where the conversation should have ended.

Me: It's your mess you're going to have to deal with the consequences
WW: It's both of our mess
Me: I'm not the one who went outside the marriage to seek comfort and validation from the opposite sex multiple times

These kinds of comments arent really truth darts. Theyre more like arrows youre slinging at her while shes walking away. This just places blame and accusation on her. I dont see how they will make her think about anything but trying to get away from you.

I try not to make moral judgements at the same time I don't hesitate to hit her with the occasional truth dart. Occasionally WW will say "keep your negative comments to yourself"

If this is what you mean by a truth dart, then I can definitely see her having this reaction. Theres no reason to talk about her infidelity in the middle of a conversation about living arrangements.

[Raysd6]

25years-

Wants to separate/divorce
Pursued multiple OM's while living under this roof

I hope you are not throwing that in her face in your talks. IT's all blame. YES SHE is the one who wants out but you want her to stay, not take on your anger.

No...Certainly not the second sentence. I've already told her that I'm not the one who wants to S/D. So I realize there is no need to continually repeat that.

Everything else you have said makes perfect sense and has caused me to pause and reevaluate my interactions with WW.

AnotherStander also said that I should always ask myself the following question: "what is the goal" while interacting with WW. That keeps me from going off on an unnecessary tangent that will cause further damage to the R.

[Raysd6]

What do you mean 'you dont do divorce'? What is your alternative - chaining your W up in the basement? At some point, if she files, youre going to have to...do divorce. I would realign your thinking.

I realize that if she files I can't stop the divorce. What I'm trying to convey is that I'm not going to voluntarily help end the marriage and break apart the family.

I dont believe that divorce is the solution to our problems, but I love and respect you enough to move forward with it if you so choose.[/i]

Think about how those words are different from saying:
- Divorce isnt the solution to our problems
- I dont do divorce

Makes sense and does sound better overall