You will look much stronger if you don't worry about it (which is hard) and start DBing, start distancing, start 180s. Me knowing didn't change her mind.
Personally, I can't fight phantoms, and trying to mind-read/over-interpret has been driving me crazy. Knowing/clarity is helping me detach. Just having the courage to bring it up to her last night in a non-emotional, non-confrontational way has helped me focus. This has been floating around for a couple of weeks in bits and pieces, and I have been so anxiety-ridden that it's been hard for me to function. I've been too afraid to address it because of the potential negative consequences, but the way I'm wired, I have to know.
She's incredibly anxiety-prone herself - that's why she was on meds for so long - but I'm not wired live quite like that.
I'm angry that we're at this point. At this moment I have very low desire to have talks about the M, calling, texting, hanging around chit-chatting, helping with her resume, or even pretending to be my charming self. Which I think is at the core of DBing anyway...
I don't know. I hate to go against advice of people here. Y'all have experienced what works and what doesn't.
"Listen, this is how marriage works; if one spouse doesn't like the other spouse's friend, then the friend has to go."
This is basically what I've been hearing from my IC and religious leader...What can you tolerate? What are your boundaries? Are you ok with this, because some people might be.
My W has always had guy friends, mostly around work, and I haven't particularly cared. She's attractive and geeky smart and handles herself well in business. I have been jealous at times but only as it pertains to xBFs that wanted to stay in touch with her. She is choosing to handle this differently.
Somewhere I really think that my putting my foot down and taking care of lingering stressors will be more "manly" to her...and it's the right thing to do. As are the GAL ideas and 180s. She said early in our M that one thing she liked about me was that I didn't tolerate her crap. And I've been far more crap-tolerant lately.
The problem is LH when someone starts an affair there are three roads they can take :
A. Pursue both the affair and maintain the marriage at subsistence level B. End the marriage and pursue the affair 100% C. End the affair and pursue the marriage 100%
Option B and C are painful... in both cases they have to give up something and make a commitment to something fully
Option A allows them to hold onto both relationsihps. Option A is the least painful, the most hurtful, the most destructive, and unfortunately the most desirable
Why would any addict want to give up anything when they can juggle both?
In most cases they don't want to and wont. They may show anger, they may move out, but they will continue to send text messages, call, or show up to "get some things I left behind" ... It's all a ruse to maintain a subsistence marriage and "check in" to keep the marriage barely breathing...
Right now he's choosing A because to an addict it makes sense...
If you sit with an alcoholic and offer them
A. Purusue drinking each night, and keep your family support B. Break with your friends and family and pursue alchohol 100% C. Break alcohol use and enjoy your supporting family 100%
Why would any alcohoic in their right mind choose anything other than A?
They won't.
They will chose the path of least resistance each time.. and the path of least resistance to them is the one that causes them the least amount of stress - having to make a choice for one and end the other is stressful... very stressful
So they maintain both... THey will mantain the marriage and try to keep up contact with the affair partner at a subsistence level, or they will move in iwth the affair partner and keep sending the odd text message to the LBS to maintain the marriage, etc. They don't want to make a choice.. choices are undesirable compared to juggling both options... Having to make a commitment to B or C only is too final, too painful, too grown up.
The advice I usually reccomend on this forum is to FORCE the addict to choose B or C by taking yourself OUT of the affair. You confront him one time and set clear boundaries :
a. End all contact b. Full transparency of cell phone use and PC use c. Transfer somewhere else or change jobs if OP is in workplace d. Family therapy for both of you at least once a week e. Do all necessary readings on building and repairing marriages f. A no contact letter written and signed by both of you and sent to OW etc
You may add to it, but you hit him with those terms and he has FIVE MINUTES to decide.
If he wont' you choose for him by packing his things and showing him the door.
Once he's out the door
a. You don't call him b. You don't text him c. You don't email him d. You dont' visit him e. You don't write him a letter f. You don't leave notes on his car g. You don't post anythign on your facebook about him
You force him to choose B or C by taking A away as an option.
YOu can't force him to choose C my dear, but you CAN force make A not an option anymore by exiting yourself from his lifestyle until he chooses a healthier one for the two of you
That in a nutshell is my advice.
I DO reccomend you tell friends and family your position and ask them to press himt o return home and agree to return to FT, etc... But I strongly reccomend that you exit yourself from his life if he refuses the confrontation.. You don't give him a week to choose, you give him five minutes and you watch him the whole time.. he does NOT call her to chat or make up his mind.. he sits there and chooses no calls no talking to OW
It's a confrontation NOT a negotiation... You give him one choice, and he either takes it or he leaves
If he refuses to choose you tell him his choice is leaving... And you start packing his things FOR HIM
Don't ask him to do it and walk away.... YOU do it so he KNOWS you mean business ...
THe HARDER and FIRMER you ARE on this the more SERIOUS he will take you..
If you waffle and cry and backpeddal even an INCH he will exploit that a mile...
You hit him hard and firm and fast and send him to teh door if he won't commit there and then
After my W told me she wanted a D we went on date with other couples and she flirted with me the entire time. The following week we went to a pool party and she gave me a long heart felt kiss then 3 days later told me she wanted to get an apartment.
Man oh man that is messed up! Unfortunately it's not unusual, but wow.
Originally Posted By: JDub
I'm sure she knows this too on the physical side, which is why I'm driving her up the wall with my insecurity about it. It's the hiding and secrecy that's making me bananas, because I don't know if there's any emotional attachment or not.
That's often the case. It was the case in my sitch too. My W had a guy friend (coworker) that I suspected PA with. It turns out he was actually encouraging her to try and make the M work, but I didn't find that out until much later. If it was an EA it was one way as he wasn't returning it. So you never know. I think after S and D they got closer and it probably turned PA but I don't know and it doesn't really matter to me anymore. I guess for me, the real question here isn't whether she's having an A, it is this:
Is my wife: a- With Me? b- Not With Me?
Your W is clearly (b), end of story. What does it matter if she's talking to someone else, or shagging the Dallas Cowboys, or being a saint? She is NOT WITH YOU. So you need to ACT ACCORDINGLY. Get out. GAL. Leave her to her journey while you take yours.
Quote:
There is risk here that W will bolt, or that I will. Your W admitted a PA, as have seemingly many others on here, but mine is hiding things and keeping secrets, even though I have some circumstantial evidence that points in a direction. Our R may not make it, but I do deserve to know what the truth is.
You "deserve" to know? What, if she's having an A? Here is all you "deserve" to know- did she break her marriage vows? THAT is all you need to know, and the answer is YES. So where do you go from here? Your M is dead, gone, in the shitter. Now let's talk about your journey my friend, because right now that's all that matters. Maybe at some point your paths will cross again, but for now you need to work on you.
By the way, as Joseph said, snooping and confronting will only drive your W's activities deeper undercover. And again, does it really make a difference? If it makes that big of a difference to you then just assume the worst, she's in a PA. Assume it and move forward. That's what I did, even though it turned out not to be true it gave me the drive I needed to quit snooping/ worrying and get about the business of making myself awesome.
I guess for me, the real question here isn't whether she's having an A, it is this:
Is my wife: a- With Me? b- Not With Me?
Your W is clearly (b), end of story. What does it matter if she's talking to someone else, or shagging the Dallas Cowboys, or being a saint? She is NOT WITH YOU. So you need to ACT ACCORDINGLY. Get out. GAL. Leave her to her journey while you take yours.
Not going to threadjack here, but thanks AS. I also needed to hear this.
So where do you go from here? Your M is dead, gone, in the shitter.
Ok let's assume this is all true, and you are spot on, and she's not "with" me. That it's all hopeless and the unstated purpose of these boards is actually a D support group, not a DB group. I'd much rather bust this than have it stay broken.
So now what? Do I throw her out? Not show up to my party tomorrow night to signal to friends that something dire is going on? I have heard from some family law sites that it's better to NOT be the S who leaves the MBR or home, it sends a better signal when the LBS stays put.
[Quote}You "deserve" to know? What, if she's having an A? Here is all you "deserve" to know- did she break her marriage vows? THAT is all you need to know, and the answer is YES. [/Quote] Well, ok, so...this is a little extreme. She didn't as best as I can tell break any vow. I actually broke a vow. Talking with other men, if that's all that this is, is not breaking any vow that we took. Marriages go through cycles, and we're in a down cycle. Does not mean we can't move on to something even better. I'm not saying this R will go anywhere good, but crazier things have happened.
Ok let's assume this is all true, and you are spot on, and she's not "with" me. That it's all hopeless and the unstated purpose of these boards is actually a D support group, not a DB group. I'd much rather bust this than have it stay broken.
Then focus on yourself and be the best hombre you can be. That way she will take notice and maybe want to be your W again.
Quote:
I have heard from some family law sites that it's better to NOT be the S who leaves the MBR or home, it sends a better signal when the LBS stays put.
Everyone on here says never leave your MBR or your house. She wants out she can go but you stay put.
Everyone wants to know if there is an A. In your case with the suspected OM being far away, it probably isn't physical. If you are going to try to save the marriage either way, then the A doesn't really change what you do. I think that is why the advice is to just leave it alone. You run the risk of damaging the R further by trying to find out.
If the A does make a difference, you still face the challenge of trying to find out the truth. Many spouses lie about it, so how would you be able to find out? If you ask her and she says no, do you believe her and leave it at that? Too many variables and no way to confirm. It looks like short of bugging the Skype call, you would have no way to know.
M: 41 W: 41 Married 2003 2 boys 9 & 6 Bomb Dropped May 2017
Please do NOT expose your marital problems to other 3rd parties. There are many reasons for keeping marital problems private. You can say that you are facing a marital challenge IF someone asks, but
The more you try to manipulate your spouse by enlisting allies, over disclosing, the more you force them to defend their choices. Plus it's much harder for them to return if they feel humiliated or publicly shunned. And your friends and family will pressure YOU not to take the spouse back, but it is not their business...except you told them so they think you invited their feedback and scrutiny.
Cornering your spouse with "everyone says you're wrong" is you trying to control them and I have never ever seen it work here.
It is NOT a tenet of DBing (read the section on not involving others)
and you can confirm that with looking at Sandi's guidelines (I don't use the term "rules" b/c not all apply). The crux of DBing is to do what works and not do what isn't working.
Seems obvious but a ton of spouses try doing what they believe "Should" work or what once worked etc.
Blurting out a private issue will feel like a betrayal to them, (which you may find ironic). But it really does hurt the cause.
Keep posting here and hang in there.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
