I would like to add a few of my experiences to this thread. You can throw all of these under the category of what NOT to do.
I sincerely believe that my W's loss of respect for me is how I ended up where I am today. What contributed to this loss of respect? A lot of things, some of which I had control over, and some not.
Our relationship was coasting for the better part of 5 years, after the birth of D5. During those years my wife simultaneously struggled to maintain her business, act as the primary caregiver to our children (newborn and a 3 year old), and deal with the reality of her mom dying from cancer.
During this time I *THOUGHT* I was doing all the things a good husband was supposed to do. I went to work every day and brought home the majority of the money we needed to live in our house and support our lifestyle. I was always present in my kids lives and home life: helping with dinner, bathtime, bedtime, chores, etc. I converted my office into a bedroom so that my MIL could be close to my W and the hospital where she was getting chemo.
Once the kids were self-sufficient and her mom had passed, things quieted down and my W had time to reflect on the current state of her life. It was at this time that I had the opportunity to rescue my marriage, but I didn't. I was lost in my own world of working, being a father, and satisfying my own pleasures and needs to get through the day.
My W became the executive of running the house and I became the third child in the family - very willing to do what was asked of me, but never taking any initiative other than going back and forth to work. In addition to this, I was self-absorbed and always insisted that we do things my way. I now believe that after this went on for a while, my W started losing respect for me and eventually engaged in her first EA/PA of our marriage without even a second thought.
The rest of my story is well documented, but I do remember one specific conversation right before I found out about OM1 where my W said, "Look, you don't get it. I need someone to TAKE CARE OF ME. I don't get that from you. It's like we're siblings and I need more than that." I didn't realize then that she had already decided to leave the MR. I just thought, "Great, she's finally telling me what she wants. I will do whatever I can to make that happen." One year later I realize that any changes I made were going to be too little, too late for her.
Now, I'm not solely to blame for everything. My W had an abusive and traumatic childhood. She reacts negatively to stability and pursues relationships that offer a certain level of drama. This is what feels normal to her. She has very little contact with her family. All of these variables led up to a perfect storm of waywardness and mid-life crisis. At some point my W made the decision to sabbotage the MR and has been in her fog ever since.
But if I'm being honest, I didn't step up once the affair was revealed. I should have gotten angry. I should have stood up for myself. I should have taken a leadership role. My wife respects a man in that role, and I needed to reestablish that respect before any other reconnecting could happen.
But I didn't. I collapsed from the betrayal. I saw the end of my marriage and family life hovering in the distance and paniced. I cried. I begged. I pleaded. I tried to be logical with her. I tried wooing her with romance. I spied on her. I started doing all the things she'd always complained about me not doing. But none of it helped, because the respect was gone. She saw all my actions as desparate and controlling.
Now here I am a year later dealing with separation, family counseling, divorce mediation, division of assets, and the the harsh reality of only being able to see my kids 50% of the time. None of it by my choosing, but some of it by my doing.
I don't think think my MR is completely dead, but time is really the only thing that can save it now. In time I might not want to save it anymore. But if I could go back in time, it wouldn't be to change how I reacted to the BD a year ago. It would be to change how I contributed to nurturing the MR five years ago.
M46 W48 M11 T14 S11 D8 BD: 2016/05/27 In-home separation: 2016/11/23 Nesting: 2017/06/11 W moves out: 2018/01/07 W goes public with OM: 2018/07/12 I ask for a divorce: 2018/12/14
This why I have concluded that without respect these wayward aren't the least bit concerned by a thing we do. These WW are seriously cheating down. And I know for a fact that my W OM isn't doing a thing for her. But yet she is risking it all for some reason. So he has somehow earned her respect by simply existing.
Because other than the few times they were physical and b.s. conversation. Doing things for is not the reason he has her respect. Also I recently read an article that W are secretly attracted to a cheater. I guess a man who desired by many women is an attractive quality that no one wants to admit to. Probably why OM is attracting people's wives.
A good session with the MC this morning. However one thing did mystify me a bit. On the subject of sex she did ask me if I tended to initiate and I said it tended to be my W mainly because I never wanted it to appear that I was demanding it, so in that sense I was putting her feelings first. Also undoubtedly in the background was my feeling that she was not a highly sexed person (no sex before marriage and only once in a 2 week honeymoon). There have even been a couple of time periods where we have gone a year without. Therein lies one communication issue clearly as she would always shut down any conversation on the subject. In her defence I have not always been in the best of shape. So the supreme irony at the moment is that I am in fairly ripped shape now and we have had more sex during the A period than prob in the whole marriage (outside of attempting to conceive).
So I think the MC was trying to say that one of the reasons for the affair was that I wouldn't reinforce her sexuality and desirability through initiating sex. So I might have to hold my hands up for that one although she warned me that we would have to talk such things over in the next joint sessions for the counselling to work. Of course I had to admit there was a high chance she might have been thinking about the OM "during" but there's not much I can do about it. In a way I am glad she is finally getting something out of it for herself outside of pleasing me if that doesn't sound paradoxical.
Having said all this the most important question came at the end where I answered in the affirmative about whether I am prepared to divorce, I told the MC I at least have to appear I am going through with it.
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
That's almost similar to how things with my W is. My W had a few close sexual assault encounters. Nothing happened to her as far as I know. But her past made me careful on how I handled her sexually. I didn't want to seem like I was making her do anything that she didn't want to. But apparently she wanted a lot more, which is what led to the A. Would have been nice to know this prior, but I believe she didn't want me to judge her. This is one of things that pissed me off about my sitch. My W is judging me based on how she feels. Rather than what I have actually done. 90 percentage of issues could be solved with an honest conversation.
90 percentage of issues could be solved with an honest conversation.
For Real!! So many times in the M I asked my W about what she wanted in bed and how I could do things to improve our sex life. She never never never told me what she wanted. Always said 'I want to make you feel happy' - which is fine once in a while, but sex is a 2 way street. I told her so many times it makes me feel so good when I can please her and I want her to open up to me. After she consistently shutting me down trying a couple of things - nothing too kinky - I just gave up. She didn't even want to talk about it. WTF?
Then we stopped having sex often - partly due to life and work and kids - but I didn't want to have sex where only what I would want was the priority. I want to have a dynamic sexual relationship.
Just so frustrating when W shut down me trying some things and even not wanting to talk about it. What am I supposed to do? I would tell her all the time how amazing her body is and how beautiful she is and how much I want her completely. That also didn't work.
If I ever work any of this sitch out that will be one aspect which will have to be filed in the WTF section. How can she pursue someone lustfully whilst bringing up a 6 year old. I'll prob understand why she wasn't physically attracted to me any more but isn't that still pre-fog, pre brain chemicals?
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
Alright this is where I get confused. Gaining back respect should be your priority in my opinion. But the DR book has you in a position where your basically just being nice and giving a lot of your spouses negative behaviors a pass. Most of that would be cool, but having a OM in the picture isn't cool. Not to mention that contradicts the respect factor. How can they respect you if they know you will allow them to continue to disrespect You?
Concepts like 180s and GAL are great. And I encourage everyone to go hard with those things. But has anyone figures out how to actually balance the DR book concept without having to entertain disrespect. Because the word cake eating gets passed around this forum. And in a way cake eating is kind if what the DR book encourages you to do. If I am looking at this wrong please break it down for me.
