Thanks AnotherStander. Patience is something I needed to work on anyway. Before I discovered about OM I was hoping maybe at the end of the summer we would have brought the train back on track.
I just don't consider it an A. If it is anything it's an emotional connection. But when she was doing that she was acting like I was the OM. She kept her nude body hidden from me. Then when we got closer, every time we took steps back because I brought up OM. Now that I stopped bringing him up she is getting closer and closer. I just don't see how she would then suddenly go back and try to add another R to her 'workload'.
Unless she is lying to me. Unless OM and her are exchanging sexual texts. Unless they are plotting their move...but if that is the case the volume reduced. Does he need to be out of the picture? I don't see how he CAN stay around but as I have said quite a few times now...she needs to stop being afraid of me. AND she needs to see a future with me.
Compared to what I read in other sitch I am grateful that her baby steps have been at times big leaps but W is basically setting the pace with them.
As to your Passive Aggressive comment. You're right. Basically I saw doodler's comment and it reinforced that maybe I have been played. I am finally getting over that fear the past few weeks. But here is where my trust in W plays a role too. Two weeks ago I expressed myself based on an expectation I had and instead of framing it as a question I expressed an assumption. W and I discussed it the next day and she brought up how sometimes I say things that she knows I don't intend but come across as not being the issue at hand. Her immediate reaction was anger and frustration but she took the time to reflect on it and we calmly discussed it. That is what I mean when I say it seems W is giving it a genuine effort. The only other explanation is that she sees me as a project where she wants to make me into a better husband for the next W but then she would basically walk away from a better version of me which just doesn't make sense!
We shall see.
Either way. I have a better marriage waiting for me OR I can walk away knowing that I treated her with respect and respected her desire for space and time and showed compassion towards her. If the former, I would continue to have to act in this way to best fit her needs so I take it now as important practice time.
I will ask during my IC how to go about inquiring if NC with OM has been achieved. It may be what the counselor hinted at two weeks ago when she told me to focus also on what I need. But then the apology happened. Anyway no need to rehash everything again.
And of course what was expected happened: W had phone interview last night and it went well... they called her first thing in the morning to invite for on-campus interview later next week.
I was excited for W. She asked me: - how I feel about it (i.e., excited for her, proud of her, but also ready to get house on market and possibly switch to online teaching and move along) - She mentioned how she is excited about this but would also miss me and that she is happy we are at least in a better place.
That she focused on this while she could have focused on just her own happiness tells me we can overcome this.
But...yes... now I need to get going. I am likely going to become the department chair here (huge prestige, huge honor) but my heart won't be in it if W is on the other coast (a place I want to move to myself). But it won't be easy to find a job this quickly. I could teach online for a while and keep this job and just "commute" two or three times in the semester but that won't be ideal.
I told my W to enjoy this moment and we can see where this is going and that I am confident we will make it work and that if possible I would like to go with her.
MC tonight is going to be interesting. But regardless of our sitch this offer is a huge help for our desire to leave Florida and move to the PNW. She wants to do her PhD which would cost money and her focus on empowerment was that she wanted to be able to finance it. With this job she not only can do that but she will bring a salary that is more equal than what I would make. Likewise, it reduces the pressure on me to find a really high paying job.
So yes, MC was focused a lot on the interview and the prospect of W being offered the job. W would love for me to come along if I can make it work but maybe it will be a few months before everything is taken care of.
Honestly, I did have a dark thought last night about if she really wanted me to come along immediately and when we discussed it she said of course. She just didn't want to express that so there is no expectation.
This morning we discussed what would happen if I had to move later.
The MC confirmed that she was rooting for us and that we are both working really hard and that the IC was the turning point in her mind.
Not expecting that this move will fix everything but it helps W's health, aligns with her career desires and other goals. I kind of hope they will let her start in January but probably we are looking at mid to late September. I mean obviously she doesn't have the job offered but why would you fly someone to the other side of the country if you weren't really considering that person.
W. was said that she would be gone right when all the things happen in Florida (Halloween Horror Nights, my birthday).
In the car ride over to work yesterday morning W pointed out how we shouldn't disparage the place we work at (remember: I feel she is always complaining and I kind of went along with doing that as well at moments). So I notice a real change in her attitude which in turn has made our time together so much more special.
When we drove to MC after work she described it as if there was a dark cloud that came over us and the darkness dragged us further down and right before it was spiraling down too far it was turned around and in turn there are now all these opportunities opening up.
I trust her to let her move first but I really don't want to be apart from her. It seems she also doesn't really desire that either. Obviously she should take it if it is offered. But I really hope for one of those famous spousal accommodations that they sometimes offer in universities.
Had a few minutes left at her lunch after my appointment elsewhere on campus so I dropped by her office (normally she comes to my office so I thought that was a nice change as well). She mentioned how she emailed the job interview place with flights that would work and updated her references.
She asked if I wanted to look at places to rent and we did. She said "I would love for us both to go at the same time but just in case let's assume I am alone and that I would need a temporary place where I don't need to buy furniture"
Our interactions lately have been so wonderful. There are challenges (and in fact, I slip up occasionally although when I do it's because I am tired or hungry). W hugged me before leaving her office saying how she really loved and felt good when my reaction about all of this has been supportive and how this is what she had been missing. I said that I am trying to be aware of expressing what I really feel rather than look at hypotheticals and how I have really enjoyed the past couple of weeks with her and that everything I had been missing is now being provided.
It might be the romance phase of her seeing a dream location become possible but these improvements had been happening in an increasing manner. I am glad to be a part in her plans. It doesn't feel like she is forcing herself to consider me a part of her future.
She totally acts like we will eventually be there together and maybe I will have to stay longer in Florida but it feels she is being genuine. My worry of being apart from her is no longer about trust that she would jump onto some random guy but rather that I am just sad we would have to be distant. But perhaps that will spice things up when we do see each other for a few days and when I eventually move it will allow us a fresh start. She can be the one showing me around whereas she always had to rely on me doing that.
If my sitch is turning around I think the critical ingredients were:
1) Taking responsibility for my contributions were to ruining the MR 2) Doing actual meaningful 180s 3) Not letting myself give in completely to sadness. Some will call this GAL but given our sitch (working together at same place, driving together, being under same roof) limited the number of things I could do on my own. Although I certainly DID focus on getting a life: I worked out, I interacted with friends, I didn't always sit around and wait for W
That led to my W 1) Taking note of changes, validating my worth and changes (this is a CRUCIAL reason why if we are progressing now that made a significant difference compared to what I read in other threads) 2) Very tumultuous emotional up and down journey where we would take steps forward and then take two or three steps backwards 3) My W then suggested we needed outside help and suggested MC 4) I think I also have to credit OM for not being a scumbag. I am not thrilled that it happened and he got involved with a married woman but he seems to have taken a hands off approach. I am not sure if that's true but I do think despite there is an OM in my sitch that him not seeing my W more frequently early on but after I discovered the A he didn't bug her over and over. He in fact told W it was totally cool if W went back to me (thanks dude haha) so it allowed W to be out of her fog and recognize what had just happened. I can be completely wrong.
MC accomplished initially 1) taking note of what was fundamentally wrong 2) Lots of mutual validation but still very up and down trajectory 3) Implementation of resources that we received in MC by both myself and W (another CRUCIAL component: we both took it serious) 4) Despite us taking it seriously, we needed to start IC 5) IC addressed for (I assume) W her need to empower herself, to look beyond ME as a reason why things were bad (I say this ONLY because there has been a RADICAL shift in how W interacts with me) in turn, I received validation that what I was doing was right.
So here we are and I am working on being more patient, less impulsive, actually listening to W who in turn could focus on empowering herself which reduced her anxiety, fear and anger towards me which in turn enabled me to continue working on myself.
The empowerment of W allowed her to feel confident enough to pursue a job. But unlike in the past where she would see any question or reaction by me as me wanting attention on myself she now recognizes that not only am I supportive of her but that I DO play a role in these decisions.
Problems to work on: 1) communication. We still have the occasional he said, she said where we mean something else but misunderstand what is being communicated, how it is being communicated BUT we either catch it right before it escalates or IF there is an issue we resolve it very quickly after. E.g., last night I wanted to process what just happened that day and after W had spoken to her mentor about it and she asked if a friend could come over and we could order thai food and relax. I said we can eat but I rather just process it with you first. She immediately called him but she had a lot of adrenaline. I saw the adrenaline as her somehow not wanting me to come along (thought I had in my head that took over) so I sat down in living room and when she saw I was upset I explained what I thought was happening and she apologized and said she misunderstood. It wasn't a big deal. She didn't say: oh there is the old Tobias (almost typed my real name) instead she said of course I want you to teach online and come with me.
2) being the rescuer. My W calls me out on it now but in a gentle way. It's interesting. Subtle things where I am just trying to be helpful I now see where and how it is construed as not being helpful.
3) how to go about this new situation. MC said we needed to continue to give each other space especially if we are going to be physically separated.
Typing all this out is therapeutic for me and helps me focus my own thoughts. I repeat a lot of things in these posts but it's to remind myself of the plan and the larger goal.
Continuing to see slow signs of progress but also both recognize that with her job interview there may have been an acceleration in where life is taking us.
She told me she is committing to making it work but also is cognizant of the fact that her moving away is a complicating factor but she feels we can work on it. She NEVER expressed those words until this weekend and before always said she wanted to feel that way.
She did say she doesn't want to rush saying ILY since she wants the moment to be special.
Trying to let her enjoy her interview and getting ready for it and not so much thinking about the "what ifs". Not quite there yet but doing pretty well because as MC said in IC to me that it is very remarkable how we both are giving this a real effort.
Don't have much else to update with other than that I think once a job offer has been made we probably will have to figure things out in greater details. Ideally she would start after September so we have a few more weeks together and we can plan things etc.
I told IC that a few weeks ago I felt she needed to be moved out and "lose something" but that it appears that W's IC has done tremendous good and that while I would like to move with her to the PNW that I am not dreading our time apart and that it might actually empower W more. But that I also like the idea of us going together and being in a new place where we can set things up right from the start. Counselor told me to also recognize how privileged I am that in this economy I do have a job and I do have options and to just enjoy exploring multiple options. (Ironically W told me that exact thing right before I went to IC on Saturday.)
I am sure I will have a more profound update soon but perhaps this was also kind of nice. Not that we don't have bumps. We do. But it's immediately resolved. That's the beauty!
Don't have much to update other than that W is waiting to hear if she got the job but is also planning action steps if she stays (like renovating the home, planting a herb garden). W said she didn't like the person she was and recognizes she broke my trust but that I need to have patience and that a lot of what she does during IC involves loving herself and addressing issues from a long time ago. In the meantime we continue to do things together, she continues to show emotional and sexual intimacy towards me.
Last week during the flight to Portland she almost was unable to make her connecting flight due to delay from where she was leaving from and reached out to me. Fortunately, she was able to get her flight adjusted after they heard she has a job interview.
She shared with me a text she sent to a mutual friend which shows her humor but also shows how she has come to terms with her own responsibility. Until the past few weeks she said it wasn't really cheating. Until the past few weeks she said she wasn't committed to making it work but now has suddenly used those terms.
"Ever since we met, I have gotten a new job, was on the brink of divorce, endured a cheating scandal, and now I'm on my way to Portland for a job interview that almost got derailed"
I told her this would be a great book title.
Are we done working on ourselves? Hell no! Are we happily married? No, and there are some challenges every now and then but we now are able to address them when they happen.
Could there be setbacks? Probably.
As for me. We are finally going to be able to vote for the department chair position and in a week I should know if I get the votes (and then the Dean has to appoint me) but I feel good that I receive all that support and faith in my capabilities.
Am I worried that if she gets the job offer that things might get confusing again? Absolutely.
Do I think that we had a little miracle happening in the current trajectory? Yes. And that makes me a little guarded and cognizant that maybe things aren't as good as they seem but I have no real reason to feel this way.
If I cannot believe anything she says and half of what she does I can say that I am at peace. If we end up divorced I know I can be proud of myself and how I showed compassion towards herself. I worked on addressing things that I needed to work on. My W. has done the same and so I cannot see how she would simply be acting and / or pretending. I do know she is a little anxious about the MC perhaps ending soon (but IC would continue). But I do think she has legitimate issues she has to work on that aren't really connected to me.
It is amazing how beautiful and strong my W has shown herself to be when she empowers herself. And through her efforts has shown that she cares about me. She says she is waiting to say ILY for the right moment (I know... I can be skeptical but she has a lot going on...and we did rush everything in our relationship). But she does everything she possibly can to ensure I feel good about myself. Despite her exhaustion she does things to do that.
Am I fooling myself? I don't know. But I don't see a bad end result here. Either we have found a way to revitalize and strengthen our marriage OR if it ends I will leave it knowing that while I have flaws I can walk away happy and knowing I gave it my best shot.
Do I hope she doesn't get the job? Perhaps a little bit. Just because it makes it easier for us to continue to grow and perhaps move together. But I can also see how her moving first would further empower her and would allow us to continue to grow individually (and have some passionate trips). But that is my worry a bit that because it would be fun and passionate trips that it might slow the tougher parts. But one day at a time.
So I have been wanting to update but kept waiting. In general we are moving forward but have been having a few bumps. The semester started again and we are both stressed from work and exhausted. And that creates problems in the communication.
- W didn't hear from PNW so she assumes she didn't get the job - I earned 13 yes votes out of 20 total, someone else (higher in rank) earned the same number. Dean went with the other person as chair. I am very unhappy with this as I was seen as the candidate that could unite the dept and it doesn't help that more and more people say they only voted for me so either people are lying OR fraud happened (russian hackers?).
- W mentioned how OM's birthday was this Saturday and how last night he told W that he went back to his ex-GF because W chose me. My W. felt that wasn't fair the way she was blamed and she relived the entire affair and felt guilty again and truly seems remorseful and said she doesn't understand why she just didn't stop before it got physical. She said IC was focused on reducing contact with him which has steadily increased. She realizes how he isn't going to be a good friend (major improvement since months ago she expected we could all be friends) - BUT we have to improve communication and MC suggested that perhaps the MC sessions are what is holding us back and suggested IC. I agree. We both have quite a bit of our past haunting us and that has nothing to do with the MR but it influenced it.
I am hopeful that we are giving it a shot. W mentioned she chose me and that it's hard work but that because I keep working hard at it she continues it as well. There are some fundamental things we are working on. My goal is to reduce stress so I can be sharp and not easily get lured into a messy situation but a lot of it are just simple things that doesn't make W feel left out.
Having been on here and having read several sitch (I stopped commenting on others as I wanted to see if whatever advice I would give based on my own experience was misguided or not). I still stand by my approach and I think given my specific context it worked.
It's a marathon and I am just very pleased my W is actively running with me. Sometimes I grab her instead of letting her run, sometimes I suddenly shift direction without letting her know, sometimes I try to jump over a hurdle that is too high. But for the most part I feel blessed that I am not doing this alone.
The MC told us when she advised only IC that she isn't going to work on the why from the past as that is just not healthy. Every now and then W or I brings the past up. But we both want to move forward. She also told me that in all the years of her doing this she rarely sees two people like us who both want to make it work and want the dysfunction to stop AND who both recognize their own role. That has always been my gut feeling to not go full on Sandi2's rules.
But it's time for us both to leave Florida. We have grown, we have gained things but neither of us is truly appreciated and valued at work and neither of us is truly happy here. I could make it work but my W's health (barometric pressure affects her) makes that nearly impossible. While I wanted to be chair and while I had broad support it is clear this position wasn't where I need to be.
Hurricane Irma might be hitting us next weekend but in many ways our household already has been devastated by it.
Irma related update (just in case you are curious) we are leaving Florida and drive to Alabama tonight to hopefully be ahead of everyone else (not likely). It is predicted right now (but that can easily change) to hit the East coast and not on our side but the west coast will deal with impacts. I just rather play it safe.
My W did tell me she loves me this morning so I guess we may lose the house and a lot of meaningless property but this might have brought us closer.
Thanks. It turns out the eye of the hurricane was predicted to go right through our city (so it shifted from east to west) but it appears as if the home survived.
Somehow this brought us together a bit. It's not great yet but more and more it seems we are working like a real team.
