When should a couple get divorced?

[Maybell]

I don't think there are only good guys on this forum. I've talked to tons of bad guys here. We just aren't drawn to their stories and they tend not to stick around.

I also don't think I was perfect in my marriage. I had a lot of growing up to do. So did he. I married him for a reason -- but as our family grew, he chose not to. He IS irresponsible. He IS a cheater. He DOES abuse alcohol (and probably other things by now too). He isn't a great father. He does come from a family in which his father bullies his mother, is obviously dysfunctional and alcoholic, and other things too. My former FIL is also loving and generous. He's not a bad guy, but he's a terrible husband and my former MIL told me more than once she wishes she'd married someone else. I could have seen all that when I met Mr. Fantastic when I was 23, but I chose to spackle over those concerns. They played out anyway, and worse than what his father does. My ex is a crappy father. He sends our kids to compete in karate tournaments with no food or water. He told my 14 yo daughter that she'd really enjoy watching Game of Thrones; he flips her off when she's being playful. Other stuff too, but basically, he's an adolescent.

My new Guy isn't perfect, but those aren't his flaws. I fought for my marriage. I do not feel ashamed that when I realized it was harmful to me and my children, I accepted that my husband didn't want to be married to me. I don't feel ashamed that I'm finding happiness and a better example for my kids somewhere else. I do still mourn my marriage and what ought to have been. But I'm not going to stand for a dead thing. What happened, happened. Against my will and my beliefs, but I've got (God willing) 50 more years of life left in me. I can't look back on any of the fifteen years I was married and feel I know the truth about what was happening during that time. I don't think it's God's will that I spend my entire life that way.

If I'm being honest, Zues, I could not date you or be married to you. You are way too intense for me. I'd feel like I was constantly walking on eggshells around you. But I think to the extent there are "good guys" and "bad guys," you're one of the good guys because of the effort you put into your marriage and especially your kids. Your ex's labels about you don't mean much, because her actions of cheating, etc., speak for her character.

Two days ago when I was clearing out my home computer, I found a letter from Mr. Fantastic's OW to him at the time that I requested he go no contact with her. In it she says that she never understood why he was cheating on me, that she didn't think it would take much to make our marriage perfect, that I clearly loved him and treated him very well, and he claimed to love me too. In the letter asking for our separation he said the same thing. But he couldn't bring himself to make the effort. At the end of the day he preferred to go out looking for greener grass.

D@mn straight I'm grateful to be with someone who thinks I'm worth the effort.

BTW, if my child committed armed robbery, I'd still love him/her, but I wouldn't hesitate to let her know I thought she belonged in jail, and I certainly wouldn't trust her to housesit for me. The decision about whether or not to have another child would be separate from that, as the decision to go out and date again was separate from the fact that Mr. Fantastic... isn't. FOR MYSELF, I wanted someone to go out with to the movies, or to local festivals, or whatever. It happens that the person I most enjoyed spending time with also brings a lot of other great qualities to the table that help me feel more like myself. It's not like I set out to find a new spouse. But if that's what it turns into, then I'm grateful for the crooked, unwanted road that brought me to someone who thinks I'm worth committing to.