When should a couple get divorced?

[Zues126]

Thank you for the replies. Personally I find this topic fascinating for many reasons and feel a divorce busting forum is an appropriate place to have this conversation.

One thing that jumps out is how diverse the different ideas are on marriage and divorce. Some people think that marriage should be forever, even to the point that they don't remarry or date again after their partner leaves such as missmyfriend. On the other end of the spectrum some people feel that marriage is an 'at will' arrangement and that no one should stay if they don't want to continue. Right away it's clear that when we talk about marriage we use the same word but have totally different ideas of what that commitment means.

One idea that I find intriguing is the trade off between the freedom to leave a bad marriage and the increase in the divorce rate that would cause. For example, in my observations the most common answer I see for when it makes to end a marriage is that divorce should be avoided "except in cases of abuse, infidelity, or addiction". But this can be defined just as widely. Are we talking just drug addiction? What about alcoholism? What about eating disorders? Pornography? Shopaholics? People that can't stay off their cell phones or internet or social media? When we talk about infidelity are we including emotional affairs? Pornography? Strip clubs? When we talk about emotional abuse, I think every spouse has done or said something that can be considered hurtful. At what point do we call it abuse and justify a divorce?

I am not suggesting that since there is no black and white line there is no point in having some ideas of what isn't tolerable. One thing I am pointing out though is that if the societal escape clause remains that vague anyone that feels like leaving a marriage could easily build a case that would meet those standards.

There is a trade off between the freedom to leave a marriage and the pain caused by a divorce. We don't like the idea of people (specifically ourselves) being stuck in an unsatisfying marriage. But when we look at the consequences of allowing the divorce rate to climb and allowing marriage to become disposable and just another word for girlfriend or boyfriend there is a cost there as well. When we subscribe to the beliefs that a marriage can be left at will (whether literally, or practically under the guise of a broad list of reasons that can be applied by a WAS to any situation) we are choosing to accept a high number of divorces. I don't hear this talked about because people don't like accepting a choice between two distasteful alternatives, so instead many people seem to adopt an attitude of "We should have clauses for people to leave if it's not a good marriage but people should just treat each other better so those things don't come up and the marriages stay together". Unfortunately that isn't really an option. Yes, you can make an argument that as marriage becomes more 'at will' then people will step up their game to avoid divorce, and this has happened to some extent, but not enough to reverse the high divorce rate.

I tend to challenge the idea that there is a good partner out there for each of us, and that somehow if we got stuck with a bad one we just need to find a better one. Each time a family splits up there is devastating pain to many people including children growing up in broken homes. So from a macro level there needs to be a big net gain to justify the split to make it the best strategy for our entire society. Yet there are a certain number of people in this world partnering up. All of those partners are human and have varying level of partners. So when a couple splits, the same people just pair up with other people. There is no net gain, yet there is a loss accrued with the separation. Furthermore it's reasonable to assume that people that are less likely to be marriage material are most likely to break up again and again and just continue to circle around the partner pool, while the best candidates remain out of the pool due to their successful partnerships.

We could argue that going through a divorce is a growth opportunity and that many of these people bring more to a second marriage, yet that doesn't match the statistics about the success rate of second or third (or more) marriages. Maybe any growth that is obtained is offset by the baggage we carry of having split homes, step parents and children, the loss of shared memories, and the knowledge that divorce is acceptable and survivable.

By the way, I'm looking at this from the view of our entire society. Clearly an individual that gets divorced may remarry, and may find someone that they build a great relationship with. So at an individual level this strategy yields the best chance of finding a 'happy' marriage. Yet at the macro level it seems this is the exception to the rule, and the result is that on average more people go through more pain and aren't any more fulfilled. Furthermore, not only don't most people find a permanent lasting marriage that is more fulfilling, they lose the few benefits of what their original suboptimal marriage provided (such as a quiet lifelong commitment, shared memories, a partner to be at your side through thick and thin, etc).

I believe that the idea of a happy marriage is the unicorn many people chase. Most people like the idea of marriages working in general, until it means that they themselves won't get what they want, and then they should be able to go find their partner that will give them what they want because they are different or special. I think this is what can explain the fact that many WAS's were dead against divorce before and after they walk, but make themselves the exception because people should be able to be happy.

For me these have been important things to reflect on. Partly because it helps me to try to find understanding in why my family was destroyed. Partly because I get to raise my children and teach them my beliefs, and my understanding of how people work and what I believe is the right outlook may influence the quality of their lives.

I don't have the answers as to when it makes sense to get divorced. For me, personally, I believe the cost of divorce is so high and the actual gains (not the outcomes we dream we'll get, but what actually plays out) don't justify those separations in most cases. I can see a clear line for divorce when there is way over the line abuse and infidelity (striking and screwing), but beyond that I think the rise in the divorce rate is too costly. I think that would reduce the divorces immediately, and if our society brought back the divorce stigma and infidelity stigma that would help reduce reduce them further by disincentivizing this behavior.

But, as Maybell pointed out, I can't change how our society looks at these things. I don't think we're going that direction, in fact I think we're moving further away. Today many kids grow up with the idea that marriage is at will, that a marriage doesn't have to last to be a success, and that having many partners both in relationships and sexually is a good thing for personal development reasons, and so you 'learn what you are looking for'.

For me I don't subscribe to these beliefs but I see that I am in the minority. But I get to at least use this information to make my decisions as to whether or not I choose to open the doors to a future partner. As for what I teach my children, well, sometimes I'm at a bit of a loss because even if they accept my beliefs, I don't know that my beliefs will do them any good if they are the only people playing by those rules.

I also accept that it may be for the best. Maybe our society evolves to where a series of 5-10 year relationships becomes the norm. People used to stay with one company their entire career, now it's a new job on average every couple of years. Things still get done, people still get paid. Maybe our society has it absolutely solved, that a series of 5 year relationships is perfect because we get the butterfly and honeymoon stages again and again, and we get to always hope that the unicorn is just around the corner waiting for us after we read our next relationship book. So while it doesn't look promising or right to me, maybe this is progress.

In the end as I've said before, I think that it's possible that Artificial Intelligence can bail us out. Either by telling us how to work with each other, or by becoming the partners that we crave to meet our individual needs. Who knows?

Thank you for the conversation. I appreciate all of your responses and look forward to reading anything else anyone cares to offer. Divorce has been a big part of my life and for me this has been helpful to think about and learn more about. Take care and hope you have some light in your day today.