What should I be doing now? (Filing for D soon)

[25yearsmlc]

Coconut,

I definitely see where you are coming from with children. W and I wanted 3, but after S13 was born she didn't want anymore. Which I respected. And her body kept having bad reaction to every form of birth control,

NOT making light of your pain, but if she had bad reactions to birth control, and you agreed to not having more kids, what other option was there?

so I did the noble thing and got a vasectomy. Which I seriously have been regretting ever since finding out about my W A.


^^I understand

Gave up the thing, I wanted most. And all she can is shrug it off and say that she appreciates. So finding a woman who doesn't want to give birth to any children is going to be an issue if this MR ends.

I'm a bit confused. Did you reverse the vasectomy?

If so, it sounds like having a child is an issue to raise early in a dating R. If it's a deal breaker and you don't want to adopt, then that's that.

Just know that fertility is never guaranteed - so you might marry a wonderful woman who is loyal and fun and loving. If she/you cannot have children together, would you walk?

Thinking onbthis just adds to the list of selfish things my W has done. Also at this point would I even want to have children so far apart in age?

don't shut too many doors. I'm one of 9 kids, and my older/youngest sister's are 10 years apart. They are close, & I had dinner last night with my 3 sisters and we get along very well.

For MY kids - My oldest, a boy, is nearly 12 years older than my youngest, a girl.

& All 3 of my kids are very close.

(It's probably my greatest achievement in life)


Oh, and my oldest brother remarried at age 56, and now has a 5 year old. (I know!!)

He seems very content with his "do over", and btw, his wife was 51 at time of delivery. Yep, I'm certain.

So My point is, Don't limit your future.

[25yearsmlc]

Coconut

most of what Blu raised with you was about the recent text exchange wherein you wanted to blast your w for politely responding to you. I read the whole thread and I'd have given her an A-, (and you, not so much...)

And you wanted to blast her some more. Like you felt restrained by holding back a little. And then you told us she's a cold b1tch

for how she reacted to your requests, which I would never have responded to as well as she did, btw.


Then when Blu raised this with you, you brought up issues from the past with a long grievance list. Ugh.

That's not what was asked of you. Btw, no you are not detached.

Nor do I think you are ready to file, but you are also not ready to DB and so you remain apart and uncommunicative. And stuck. You won't approach her, and you won't move near her, (I know you say you moved there b/c you wanted to do so 8 years ago, but that just isn't resonating with me as the only reason)

Telling your son that you were going to file seemed really premature to me,

so is your pride making you cornered a bit?

All I mean to say is, file if that's what you want. And Don't file b/c you blurted out things you think you cannot retract from

b/c for all we know, that's where your w is.

You say you literally don't know if she's even seeing OM now, or joined a convent or worked on herself.

But if she does have regrets and did want to reconcile, you have not kept the road home, smooth and paved.

It's one thing for us to make piecing include the work it should, (& I did not)

but it's a whole other thing to make reconciling harder than it already is.
Don't make it impossible.

Please consider what is being asked - about how you are handling things in the present.

is there any part of this^^^ that sounds like something that happened inside your m?

[25yearsmlc]

Coconut

read your own words here...

She’s never mentioned wanting to get divorced, I’m the only one that has ever brought it up, and the previous time I brought it up, she actually said “It’s not what I want, but if that’s what you want I will agree to it”… ha, DB’d by my WW…



She said several times that she always saw us getting back together in the future. I think my problem with that is, that I know the only way it would work is if we BOTH put in work,
and her inability to reach out at all in the last year indicates to me that she either isn’t willing, or able, to do that work.

but you have not reached out to her either, until you told her you were filing for Divorce...and you moved away

I know that it can often be several years before reconciliation occurs, but Blu, I really don’t think I want to wait anymore. And it’s not about me wanting to find someone else, because I have no desire to try and seek someone else out right now, but I just feel like this is something I need to do for myself.

dig deeper


I can’t really say why I feel that way, I’m trying to figure out what makes me feel like I want to be divorced, and I just can’t put my finger on it. It’s almost like I don’t feel whole, and I feel like finalizing the D will help me get back to being whole. Of course it could also be that I’m the type of person that if something needs to be done, I’d rather do it right now rather than put it off until tomorrow, so maybe knowing that it’s going to need to be done at some point, my natural instinct is to just go ahead and get it done.

Have you seen an IC recently? There is some confusion in this this^^ and I'd want more clarity before I'd file.

[25yearsmlc]

Coconut

I went back to your very first post. You now say she's been selfish a long time...but sometimes our pain makes us revise the marital history into a lot of blame shifting.

I understand that. But still, it's important we review our own feelings and thoughts when we are raw and here at the start.

Check it out, and I'm not saying this to blame you! I'm just reminding you of how you got here so you won't call Her a cold b1tch or the rest.




She said that she tried to be supportive over the last 1 ½ years of what I was going through, but she felt like my entire life was sitting on the couch watching tv and playing games, then stated “so yeah, I have disengaged from you”. For the most part everything she said was spot on, I knew it because I thought it about myself, but I could tell for the first time how much it had hurt her.

I stated that I first noticed her disengagement 2 days ago and I was now talking to her about it, then asked her why in 1 ½ years she never brought it up and talked to me about it (I know that harboring feelings like that can kill a relationship, and was upset that she never addressed it straightforward and allowed me to make a decision to change or not to improve). She said that although she never came right out and told me how she was feeling, she would try and encourage me to do things and I wouldn’t, and that when she would try and initiate intimacy I would roll over and go to sleep, and that she would put pretty dresses on and model them for me but I would never comment on how beautiful she is

so, can you see how rejected She had felt?

After that conversation, I went into a deeper depressive state, pretty much lost control of my emotions, and convinced myself that since she waited 1 ½ years to address these things that hurt her, she was done with our marriage and it was just a matter when she would leave, not if.


I feel this ^^negative expectation and "worst case spin" are still happening. And it can be self fulfilling.

[Coconut]

25, it's unfair to use my first post against me now... I was in despair, had rose colored glasses on, and described her in that post in the most emotional "period" that I've ever had. There is fact behind what I said back then, but she definitely was no saint and never, ever, ever, ever, did anything to save our M before she left it.

There is emotion that comes with deciding to D, there is attachment to the person that I M, memories of when times were good, but I do not believe that I can become more detached from her without spending time around her, and that's just not going to happen.

I brought up a long grievance list because I think past behavior is relevant in explaining why I felt her non-response to my text was inconsiderate and not due to an emotional response that she was processing.

Me calling her a cold-hearted B had NOTHING to do with the text exchange. It had to do with my hurt that someone could never say they were unhappy or do anything to try and make their M better, and instead have an A, and then NEVER bring up a single R talk for almost a year and a half. Anyone who can go through what happened and NEVER reach out to the other person in sadness, anger, a moment of weakness, is a cold-hearted B in my book.

You justify her by saying I haven't reached out to her either, and that is true, but do you know why? Right before we sold the house and S, I told her two things I would need her to do before I would try working on us:

1) go NC with OM
2) agree to transparency

She knew and understood what I would need, so until she did those things there was/is no reason for me to contact her (although I did several times in despair/anger/sadness). The balls in her court so to speak. And as I said earlier, even if she went NC today, I wouldn't move forward for 6 months to a year to see what she fills that void with (I don't want to fill a void, I would want someone who is already whole).

You say to dig deeper as to why I want to D now.. I am not sure how much I need or want to invest into understanding why I want to file, when I do know that I am ready and want to. If you can share why you are filing maybe i'll have a better understanding of what there is to gain in getting to the root cause of that desire, cause I just don't see anything to gain into me trying to explore it further. Is it just so I can prove that I'm not doing it for a reaction from her?

It is true that she has never brought up D, and even said it's not what she wants when I brought it up, but she's never ever never ever never ever said what she does want. Just because she says she Doesn't want to divorce, doesn't mean she wants something else.

I've spent the last year with the mindset that I'm going to D unless she decides that my 2 conditions are worth trying to make "us" work. I tried to start the D paperwork in January, I told her I was going to, but when I started filling out the paperwork I realized I wasn't ready, and put it off. I started looking into it again in June and realized I wasn't ready, so I put it off.

I ended my last thread and started this one mentioning I was going to file soon (before any texts between us). I realize the emotions that being ready to file is what affected my decision to lash out at wife about her friends behavior.

PS - I do see a lot of explaining and defending in my last few posts, I see this often in new visitors posts. I don't think I'm doing it with blinders on, but again, I know it's hard to see the forest through the trees. Please don't take my response(s) as though I don't appreciate your input. Thinking through my responses helps me process things in my head.

[Treasur]

Hey Coconut. Deciding to file is a big choice and a tough emotional one, all kinds of entirely understandable emotions. Reading your exchange with 25, I guess what jumps out is that a) your wife is showing signs of reaching out and wanting to talk b)she has never said that a divorce is her solution (although I appreciate she hasn't offered a different one yet!) and c) you feel ready to file because you believe she hasn't met your two conditions, OM and transparency?

I suppose I'm thinking that c) also implies that either you feel sure she is never going to meet those conditions or you have decided that you no longer want to be married to her regardless of what happens. How do you know that this is true? And how would you feel if you get divorced and find out in a year's time that this was the point where she was ready to do what you needed her to do?

And what is the 'problem' to which filing is the solution? What does it give you or remove from what you have now?

[Coconut]

Does she think you will never forgive her and love her as you used to?

My guess would be yes, and I am guessing that because of my anger phase. I showed her a lot of hate, not sure she could believe that I could go from such hate back to love… But who knows, cause I did go from so Loving to hate which I guess she would of never imagined.

Because I do agree that ending it without at least an understanding of why, or without at least an attempt at opening communication I texted her.

M - I would like to ask you something, but I hesitate to do so because I'm not sure I "should" and therefore have held off asking. I am asking now because it plays such a big part in decisions that I make, and I question if my thoughts are even close to reality.

M - Why haven't you reached out to discuss "us"?

WW - Because you've made it very clear to me over the past year that you despise me & when you moved I heard about how happy you seemed & I wasn't going to try to take that from you by bringing things up that opened up old wounds. I mean your sister asked me not to even like or comment on her FB posts because you didn't want to see my name. That's hate.

M - I understand that my actions made you feel hated, I was angry... anger was the only outlet I could find for my pain. I'm not proud that I was so codependent that I wasn't able to be strong on my own, I'm sorry I lashed out at you, it wasn't fair to you.

[Coconut]

ww - Thank you for saying that. I appreciate it.

[Coconut]

I suppose I'm thinking that c) also implies that either you feel sure she is never going to meet those conditions or you have decided that you no longer want to be married to her regardless of what happens. How do you know that this is true?

She was in training to be a volunteer firefighter for about 3 months before BD. At that time she was not willing to give up something she was doing for 3 months to try and save a 8 year M. Now it's been a year since I first told her that I was done with M if she wouldn't go NC, and she hasn't gone NC (which would require quitting FD). I'm not sure if she quit now that I would believe it was to save M anymore than it was simply because she didn't want to do it anymore, but I'll reserve that decision if and when it ever happens. How do you know if anything you "think" is true, I can only base my belief on what I see and know, and I haven't seen anything or know anything that says she has any plans to go NC (again, I don't know if she even talks to him anymore, but I believe they are both still there).

And how would you feel if you get divorced and find out in a year's time that this was the point where she was ready to do what you needed her to do?

My Marriage is dead, I don't feel M other than the fact that I have to check the Married, or Married but separated box when filling out official forms. There is no other feeling of being M. If a reconciliation was to happen, I would need to renew vows whether I was still M or not, so I don't see D as something that prevents reconciliation anyway. In fact, it D may benefit R in that the other person has to be committed enough to get M again.

And what is the 'problem' to which filing is the solution? What does it give you or remove from what you have now?

There is no "problem" that it would solve, except for stupid little things like when I wanted to buy a lottery ticket and the thought of her being able to take me to court to get half was enough for me not to buy it. I don't feel M, everyone who knows me in my new state knows me as a single guy, unless we've specifically had a discussion about my past. Getting D won't remove anything from what I have now, but it will get me back to neutral for my life going forward, instead of going forward with baggage.

[BluWave]

Sooooo as I have been saying for over a year: THERE IS STILL SOMETHING THERE BETWEEN YOU TWO (pats self on back).

But seriously, there are a lot of unresolved feelings between the two of you and so much that has NEVER been said. I get a sense that you are both wounded and both stubborn at the same time. That is why I keep telling you that it is still early. Perhaps:

SHE: Was growing away from you (as can happen in any M). She saw her H neglecting the M, couch surfing in the evening with too much alcohol, and impatient in general. Her oldest son is reaching adulthood and she is starting to think about her own happiness. She found the volunteer position at the fire station and she LOVED it. She also loved the attention and validation she got there. I am sorry, but I can see this happening with a lot of women I know. But she took it too far. Her H now hates her and she feels hopeless about her M and anything she can do. Now the fire station is that much more important to her to hang on to. She didn't want to meet your conditions (be controlled by you in her view), but she never said she wanted D. She did not have a full blown A or ever leave you for him (not minimizing her EA, but it's a valid point C-nut). If I recall she was willing to go no contact, but that was not enough. Was it a starting point tho???

YOU: You feel/felt like all of us here, so naturally we understand you more than her! You were lied to, cheated on, and betrayed. You feel that if she truly loved you and wanted to be M to you, then she would meet these conditions. The condition were simple in your eyes and the M should have been more important. She would have tried harder or she would have reached out if she wanted the M to work. So you gave up, sold house, and moved on and out of state. She knows where to find you. It has still only been a year and some months.

Does anyone see some gaping holes here??? Anyone? Anyone?

Blu