Not sure what I have

[25yearsmlc]

Guzzard

where do you guys live? (You don't have to be specific) but What are your winters like?

I think it's safe to say She has at least moderate seasonal affective disorder. Combined with her bi-polar illness, it's a rough combo.

I've lived in Alaska and was an officer's (MD's) wife.
There, I went to a wives meeting, which I had rarely attended before moving there. That's how desperate I was for socializing in yet winter.

At the meeting there, the women openly discussed anti depressants and which ones worked for them. 2/3 of the wives were on them in the winter, and many owned full spectrum/sun lamps, and or used tanning booths.

This^^ was a revelation to me. The utter openness they showed, admitting how widespread SAD is, was reassuring to me b/c I certainly felt it. And I had a newborn so I'm sure hormones and sleep deprivation were a bonus.

Just wanted to ask about the winter issue up front. So did she ever address that part?

And what do you see as your role in all this? Anything you'd do differently if you had it all to do again?

I'm not saying "it's not her, it's you!" I merely want to point out this:

if you were a perfect h, it'd be bad news.

B/c you'd be powerless to do anything about this. Whereas if there are things to work on in yourself, you have work to do and you are not powerless. Make sense?

I'll post more later.

[25yearsmlc]

Guzzard

I finished reading your thread and it seems you know she has SAD (plus her other issues).

I'm glad Blu pointed out the problem with research people do and pass on as "the" truth, b/c even those who are trained in psychiatry, have not met your w. Glad you know this.

(Not discounting Kguys' experience with this, in whatever form).

A few things to consider...

* you already have heard the "in sickness and in health" but there is the aspect of this that directly/uniquely affects YOU. By analogy, If your w had a disease that was contagious and endangered you, you might have to leave.

It's a hard call.

* if I understand your timeline correctly, the more recent developments are that she wants to file and it's of a short duration.

What is your actual specific dilemma now? To fight a Div or to DB or what?

* there was a WAW here some years back. She was acting out and eventually got diagnosed with Bi-polar.

She really felt constrained by the treatment and then mortified and shamed by the results of her behavior. She had children and a h who loved her a lot. And then she took her own life.

I'll never forget that. The h posted here. If his posts are still around (Before the great DB "purge" of old threads) I think his name was 9lives. Worth reading.

* Even if she were making these choices based on how she "really does feel", versus an episode, this is not a fast process. Adjust the time line for whatever you plan DB wise

and or, maybe give yourself an internal deadline for seeing progress so you can know that limbo is not permanent. That really helped me stay the course.

Hang in there, you are not alone.

I offer you support.

[Guzzard]

where do you guys live? (You don't have to be specific) but What are your winters like?

I think it's safe to say She has at least moderate seasonal affective disorder. Combined with her bi-polar illness, it's a rough combo.

The midwest, and yes, she was diagnosed with it in additional to bipolar. Her depressive cycle was Oct/Nov thru Jan/Feb. Her hypo/manic cycles was Mar/Apr thru July/Aug usually.

At the meeting there, the women openly discussed anti depressants and which ones worked for them. 2/3 of the wives were on them in the winter, and many owned full spectrum/sun lamps, and or used tanning booths.

This^^ was a revelation to me. The utter openness they showed, admitting how widespread SAD is, was reassuring to me b/c I certainly felt it. And I had a newborn so I'm sure hormones and sleep deprivation were a bonus.

Just wanted to ask about the winter issue up front. So did she ever address that part?

She addressed it with limited results. We had activities and events throughout the winter to try to help and she also used various sun lamp techniques and we do vacations to sunny warm places. Most winters were manageable for us... however, that is from my perspective and I guess I don't know her true feelings. This past winter she obviously was in the worst depression I have ever seen. She went to the psychiatrist feeling she would not be able to cope. This is when she was put on 1500mg Seroquel and she told me was for acute depression with psychosis.

And what do you see as your role in all this? Anything you'd do differently if you had it all to do again?

I'm not saying "it's not her, it's you!" I merely want to point out this:

if you were a perfect h, it'd be bad news.

B/c you'd be powerless to do anything about this. Whereas if there are things to work on in yourself, you have work to do and you are not powerless. Make sense?

Yes, absolutely there I are things I would do different. First and foremost, I would have become more knowledgeable about the mental health issues and taken a much more active role. As I mentioned in a previous reply and not to get long, that to me means basically a comprehensive plan of me help with mood tracking, triggers, more open discussions about feelings and emotions, etc.

For me personally, I recognize that I can close off emotionally when an issue arises and my analytic brain tries to process how to confront it and there simply is no good outcome. For example, due to the EA, I would close off at times....this was not all the time nor constant... but in these cases with her obsessive attraction to older men and the specific EA.

Why did I close off emotionally? Because in the case of the EA, I felt certain she would not give it up. I felt certain her emotion was going to OM and I was not getting it. I also had evidence that she was not telling me the truth.So I closed it off. It was also a boundary for me that I was letting slide rather than face the music. The right thing to do would have been to confront it, identify my boundary, and accept the results. I think this also created a stressor in our relationship that I would have handled more delicately with the knowledge of the mental health.

Boundaries... I let too many go and slide. There were a number of other items related to the mental health that I didn't even mention in my posts. These were not dealbreakers for me, but had I confronted them perhaps I would have become more aware of her actual feelings. These were things that weren't relationship "problems" but they were not normal behaviors. For example, buying things and never taking out of the package or ever using.

I am not sure on this one because my W was always telling me that she was being open and honest with me and that she felt comfortable with me in that way. Clearly that isn't the case in hindsight. I am not sure what I did or didn't do to foster it, especially being told that I was. People seem to always open up to me more than others, so I am really stuck on this one. I took what she told me about this at face value and assumed I was doing all the right things to foster it. In hindsight, I missed some clue and opportunities, but I really feel that was a result of being told I created the environment, but apparently didn't. I guess if I had known that, I would have (a) looked for how to create it and (b) paid more attention to the smaller clue and opportunities. I feel bad about this area, because I somewhat feel robbed of it.... if I was not doing it, I really would have appreciated being told....but I was told I was doing it...so now I lost on this. Does this make sense?

I guess also showing more emotion in general. I have generally been very even keel through out life. I ALWAYS showed my W great love, romance, appreciation, caring, kindness, etc... but about other things in life I generally am not emotional. For example, if I bought a new car... I like it, but I am not excited by it, it's just a car. Or if we saw a movie, I think its good, but it's not the greatest movie ever. I know this sometimes bothered my W and maybe I need to show emotion, but I guess I felt that I showed it with people and I don't care much about "things". So I not really sure one this one.

Maintaining more of my own interests. Many things that I loved to do by myself morphed into things we did together because my W at least said she loved these things too. So we did a lot of these together. That makes it harder now for me to get back into them. I should have maintained some of those things as just my alone items. I hate to regress, but now I wonder if these were things my W really loved like I did, because I saw/see her doing this sort of mirroring with OM.

Maintaining my own friendships. I generally only spend my time with a few close friends. I do not mind social circles, but I really only invest a lot of me in a few people. These few are the ones I value the most. I don't maintain more superficial friendships. I should put more time and effort into increasing the number of people that I invest in and I should allow more time for maintaining a bit bigger outer circle. Sharing and learning from others experiences and lives enriches me, provides me a larger support network, and helps me grow.

[Guzzard]

I finished reading your thread and it seems you know she has SAD (plus her other issues).

Yes, that's correct.

* you already have heard the "in sickness and in health" but there is the aspect of this that directly/uniquely affects YOU. By analogy, If your w had a disease that was contagious and endangered you, you might have to leave.

I was 100% on board with in sickness and in health. If my W had a contagious disease that endangered me, I would not leave. I was in it together 100%. It would not have been a hard call for me. She walked away and indicated divorce is the only way. I really don't have any way to know if these are real feelings or mental health.

* if I understand your timeline correctly, the more recent developments are that she wants to file and it's of a short duration.

What is your actual specific dilemma now? To fight a Div or to DB or what?

The divorce is filed and will finalize in 3 months. I do not want a divorce. There is no fighting occurring over assets or anything. I would rather save the M, but she has no willingness. My intent was to DB for myself and if something swings her around then I would have to reanalyze based on where I am at.

* there was a WAW here some years back. She was acting out and eventually got diagnosed with Bi-polar.

She really felt constrained by the treatment and then mortified and shamed by the results of her behavior. She had children and a h who loved her a lot. And then she took her own life.

I'll never forget that. The h posted here. If his posts are still around (Before the great DB "purge" of old threads) I think his name was 9lives. Worth reading.

Thanks, I will try to search it. I admit for the first 3 weeks after she left, I was in a terrible state because in her depressive episode we did discuss she had suicidal thoughts and when I mentioned she was hospitalized many years ago, it was for that. I was terribly worried if this is her highest mania that it could turn psychotic (as her depression was) and spiral out of control. It does not seem like that is the case though. I'd say her mania has stayed at the same level, though that is only from a few calls and couple of meetings. I have at least accepted that she doesn't want and won't accept my help so I am powerless. Her friends are aware and though I think they don't have "awareness" there is nothing I can do and there is no sign of danger.

* Even if she were making these choices based on how she "really does feel", versus an episode, this is not a fast process. Adjust the time line for whatever you plan DB wise

and or, maybe give yourself an internal deadline for seeing progress so you can know that limbo is not permanent. That really helped me stay the course.

For me, in 3 months the divorce would finalize and that is my internal deadline. As it approaches though, I admit, the process of her returning changes. For example, if she had returned after 3 days that would be one thing...but 2 months later and already I would need to understand what happened first. Whether it was or was not mental health plays a role in what my decision would be.

Hang in there, you are not alone.

I offer you support.

Thanks very much for your support and help. I greatly appreciate it.

[KGuy]

I am sorry you are here. It sounds like a very difficult position to be in. This is a great place for support and advice. I think your best course of action is to take the focus off of her (and her mental health) and focus on you--180, GAL, and detachment.

Above all else, this^^^

I don't know what KGuy is referring to when it comes to his research, but unless he is a medical psychiatrist, I don't feel he should be making such generalizations. It is also unlikely that someone with the qualifications to do so would in this setting (a public forum and from the perspective of the LBS and not the patient).

I have an adult daughter that is Bipolar and still lives at home. Many of the statements by KGuy do not apply to her and I do not agree with them based on my research. I actually find some of it offensive. If you want to learn more about Bipolar disorder, please make sure you know where to look and please use caution when sharing what you have learned with others.

Thank you,
Blu

Point taken Blu. You are definitely correct in that this illness is a serious and delicate subject and affects people differently. I guess i should be clear that everyone knows that i am not a medical doctor and only intended to provide some insight based on personal knowledge of individuals close to me to perhaps give you some understanding of what your W could be going through. My research is from books i've read and internet searches as well as medical doctors. I also have an adult daughter, some relatives and close friends that are afflicted with this disorder. Still, take all of that information as hearsay only intended to help you perhaps understand. I guess i should have stopped after the first post and perhaps before. I was only trying to help. I'm sorry you were offended by what i wrote Blu, I hope you daughter is not afflicted in the way people i know were.

* there was a WAW here some years back. She was acting out and eventually got diagnosed with Bi-polar.

She really felt constrained by the treatment and then mortified and shamed by the results of her behavior. She had children and a h who loved her a lot. And then she took her own life.

I'll never forget that. The h posted here. If his posts are still around (Before the great DB "purge" of old threads) I think his name was 9lives. Worth reading.

I have seen this exact scenario almost happen in person. It can be really tragic when someone gets afflicted by this illness in such a way. As Blu pointed out earlier, this is serious stuff not to be taken lightly.

* Even if she were making these choices based on how she "really does feel", versus an episode, this is not a fast process. Adjust the time line for whatever you plan DB wise

and or, maybe give yourself an internal deadline for seeing progress so you can know that limbo is not permanent. That really helped me stay the course.

For me, in 3 months the divorce would finalize and that is my internal deadline. As it approaches though, I admit, the process of her returning changes. For example, if she had returned after 3 days that would be one thing...but 2 months later and already I would need to understand what happened first. Whether it was or was not mental health plays a role in what my decision would be.

Guzzard, this is good advice and it seems you are already taking it. I wish you well.

[Guzzard]

[quote=BluWave]I am sorry you are here. It sounds like a very difficult position to be in. This is a great place for support and advice. I think your best course of action is to take the focus off of her (and her mental health) and focus on you--180, GAL, and detachment.

Above all else, this^^^

I struggling with it coming and going. I am doing the 180 and GAL. I'm not sure how well I am doing on detachment. I'll have a good day or half day and then some bad days where she stays in my head. I still do the 180 and GAL but she remains in my head.

* Even if she were making these choices based on how she "really does feel", versus an episode, this is not a fast process. Adjust the time line for whatever you plan DB wise

and or, maybe give yourself an internal deadline for seeing progress so you can know that limbo is not permanent. That really helped me stay the course.

Guzzard, this is good advice and it seems you are already taking it. I wish you well.

I can say that I am TRYING. I feel frustrated that I can't make as much progress as I want to and that I still fluctuate some much on it. One moment, I feel strong and that I have this. The next moment I realize how much I don't want to divorce.

The whole of everything really makes my headspin. As I said, real feelings, mental health, EA, OM... what's real, what's not. I guess in the end I try to remember that no matter what, she wants to divorce regardless. She told me her reasons don't make sense to her ... the fact that she just can't be married and wants to do everything ALONE. That she thought we were and I am good, but I guess I didn't make her happy enough. That she gets more happiness with (fake or real?) EA with OM. That even if only in her head the obsessiveness with OM stole her emotion from me. None of this is stuff I can control but sometimes I get so stuck on it. Typing it out helps, but I have type it out in journaling 1000 times already, it seems.

[KGuy]

I can say that I am TRYING. I feel frustrated that I can't make as much progress as I want to and that I still fluctuate some much on it. One moment, I feel strong and that I have this. The next moment I realize how much I don't want to divorce.

The whole of everything really makes my headspin. As I said, real feelings, mental health, EA, OM... what's real, what's not. I guess in the end I try to remember that no matter what, she wants to divorce regardless. She told me her reasons don't make sense to her ... the fact that she just can't be married and wants to do everything ALONE. That she thought we were and I am good, but I guess I didn't make her happy enough. That she gets more happiness with (fake or real?) EA with OM. That even if only in her head the obsessiveness with OM stole her emotion from me. None of this is stuff I can control but sometimes I get so stuck on it. Typing it out helps, but I have type it out in journaling 1000 times already, it seems.

I'm in a similar situation where i think my situation is affected by something outside a normal relationship, but it may very well be that the underlying issues are what determine if she comes back or not. And there are underlying issues in my situation and yours. Either way, the acknowledement that you need to detach and then you focus on working on yourself helps you heal to get to a better place regardless on which path your situation takes.

As far as things she is saying. Remember the saying on here tto "don't believe anything they say and only 50% of what they do". This applies regardless of her illness.

I still stand by the suggestion that you should research as much as you can about your W's situation, but only if you can detach it from her and treat it as an experiment for your own sake. I think it lead you to a better understanding of what afflicts her and lead to the path where you can truly say "I hear you". Do not let her know anything about your research though. If she does come back you will need to know as much as you can and discuss with her about this illness and beat it together.

Lastly, if you care about this person, you may want to break the guideline of contacting family and let someone close to her, perferably family, know what is going on. You Let them know to be alert and that you will not be there in case she needs help. Then follow through with that and stop all contact.

[Guzzard]

I'm in a similar situation where i think my situation is affected by something outside a normal relationship, but it may very well be that the underlying issues are what determine if she comes back or not. And there are underlying issues in my situation and yours. Either way, the acknowledement that you need to detach and then you focus on working on yourself helps you heal to get to a better place regardless on which path your situation takes.

Thanks, I recognize I need to detach for me. I have a number of GAL activities for the weekend and into next week that I hope can help. At the same time, I have to work on some divorce paperwork this weekend which is going to be hard. I hope to have a friend on the hook to spend some time with me after.

As far as things she is saying. Remember the saying on here tto "don't believe anything they say and only 50% of what they do". This applies regardless of her illness.

Yes, I do have to keep that in mind. I also know that in hindsight there were a number of things I didn't get the truth or full truth on. Regardless of why, right now more than ever, I can't analyze what she says or believe it.

I still stand by the suggestion that you should research as much as you can about your W's situation, but only if you can detach it from her and treat it as an experiment for your own sake. I think it lead you to a better understanding of what afflicts her and lead to the path where you can truly say "I hear you".

I am continuing to do it and much of the time it is helping me detach. I may have to set a timer on how much I research at once. I am finding it is a distraction that keeps my mind off of her, but I hit a point where it starts going the opposite way. I would love to be able to say to her "I hear you" and really truly understand her.

Lastly, if you care about this person, you may want to break the guideline of contacting family and let someone close to her, perferably family, know what is going on. You Let them know to be alert and that you will not be there in case she needs help. Then follow through with that and stop all contact.

In the first few weeks, I was bonkers and incredibly concerned for her. W has said before that her couple of closest friends are aware of her conditions, though her closest is terrible with advice, IMO.

I am on friendly terms with the family and she hid it from them. I did not tell them outright of her conditions, but I felt I gave them enough information that I was comfortable sharing. With the family member I was close with, I did suggest checking in on x basis.

I have been NC with the family for the last 4 weeks as well. I wouldn't be comfortable telling them more at this point.

The reality is W will listen to her one or two friends above all else anyway.... above me and above her family. I am not able to talk to those friends.

If I saw signs of danger, I would take more action, but at this point I believe I have done all I can. I appreciate what you said.

[KGuy]

In the first few weeks, I was bonkers and incredibly concerned for her. W has said before that her couple of closest friends are aware of her conditions, though her closest is terrible with advice, IMO.

I am on friendly terms with the family and she hid it from them. I did not tell them outright of her conditions, but I felt I gave them enough information that I was comfortable sharing. With the family member I was close with, I did suggest checking in on x basis.

I have been NC with the family for the last 4 weeks as well. I wouldn't be comfortable telling them more at this point.

The reality is W will listen to her one or two friends above all else anyway.... above me and above her family. I am not able to talk to those friends.

If I saw signs of danger, I would take more action, but at this point I believe I have done all I can. I appreciate what you said.

Sounds like you've already got it covered. To reiterate, Detach, GAL and focus on you. Its not easy and if you are like me, you'll fail at times, but keep trying, this is for your health as much as the possibility of the R. If the R should work out, it will not be the same and that wouldn't be a bad thing would it?

[Guzzard]

Thanks KGuy.

I am working on it! The GAL is going well,

I felt tremendous weight the first few weeks due to her conditions so I've also been in IC. That weight is lifting.

Detach is my work in progress. It is going so/so. I fight myself.

On a good note, I am doing it all for me though.

No, it would not be a bad thing for the R to be different, I would welcome that. Change would have been good in R. I think EA was preventing it, it was preventing a lot.