Oh, yeah, and that was one other beauty she trotted out last night: "You say you want total openness and honesty but you only want ME [meaning her] to live by that"... because i won't tell her how I monitored her and how I knew she was cheating... HAH!! Some gall, there.
Well, you know her goal there has nothing to do with the betterment of the MR. She does not need to know your sources. She is angry you caught her, and she wants to attack you and your source of intell. She is the cheater, so the burden of proof to become trustworthy is on her, not you. The WW will do her best to twist all of this around and even claim she isn't sure that she could ever trust you again. Keep a keen eye open to her attempts to shift blame and twist things to throw you off balance. This is about her unfaithfulness, her lies, her betrayal, and her untrustworthiness. It is not about how you acquired the information.
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And you're going to beat me up for this, but eff it, this is my marriage
You know, Jim, it had been several days since I had posted on your thread. When I decided to clarify (for the sake of the other posters) why I had suggested that you took down the surveillance too early........I was surprised at your snarly response (and you even said it was snarly). I was not telling you, "I told you so" and I was not beating you up then, and I'm not beating you now. Why the sudden anger toward me, when I have literally spent days at a time posting to you and trying to help? Well, I marked it down as being the stress you feel, but if I'm wrong then say so. I have even told you that this is your M and your life, and you don't have to do what anyone suggests if you don't want it.
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I want to make sure I understand all nuances, particularly from the folks who are counselling me that i absolutely have to kick her off the premises or leave myself: IT seems to me that your own sitch played out nearly the opposite... Didn't your H tell you NOT to walk out? That if you did, you wouldn't be coming back?
Please stop saying we are telling you to kick her off the premises.......when you've made it clear you cannot legally "kick her out". There is a difference in telling her you don't want her there, or telling her you want her to get her stuff and get out. That is not kicking her out. It's telling her you don't want her there and you want her to get her stuff and leave. Kicking her out, is physically forcing her out of the house or off the property and not allowing her access to the house.
No, my H did not tell me to NOT leave. He wasn't saying much of anything. I was the one throwing around threats, etc. He only commented on two things I said. 1) Like most WW's, I made the statement that if I decided to leave him, I hoped we would remain friends. His response was that there would be no buddy-buddy system and we would not be friends if I broke up the M. 2) I made another comment about leaving him for a while and possibly coming back if I realized I had made a mistake. He said that if I left, there would be no coming back. However, he never told me not to leave.
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What do you see as the being the difference there? TXHubby's sitch I am pretty sure i know what you'd say the difference is... that his situation is unique based on his particular temperament and almost religious devotion to disattachment while in the same house-- qualities which you have said you think I lack. But I am curious why the dynamics in your sitch seemed so different...
No, I do not think Txhubby's situation is unique. He detached, GAL, and basically did what we tell newcomers will work! He reached the point he was fed up.......and he came dangerously close to the place of no return. Actually, based on the first post where he announced his change of attitude, I thought he had become a WAH. It's not unusual for the betrayed spouse to become the WAS while living in the same house, or after a R. He chose to remain in the house, b/c he didn't care. He never said they were in-house S. His attitude told her he was done, didn't care, and she had no affect on him. He was ready to walk at the drop of a hat. You don't have to sleep in separate beds, to do that. And that's when he changed the dynamics in their relationship. She saw she was losing him (and it seems he was leaving, or close to it) and she was begging him not to go. She became the pursuer, and he became the distancer. Yes, he detached.......almost too much. What works is changing the dynamics, and that's what he did.
My H was not trying to persuade me to stay. He did absolutely nothing that showed me that he wanted me to stay, or go (other than the two responses he made). He remained stoic during my "day of decision", so to speak. I actually did not come to a final decision that day, but as the other cards began to fall, I finally did. We never declared, or even discussed in-house separation, b/c I would never have gone for it, and neither would he. We did not go to a MC (which I wanted, but he refused). I was on the board every night until I could not hold my eyes open. The board was my therapy. I was learning from people who had had experiences with a wayward spouse. The only thing that may have been unique, was the fact I was the WW looking for advice. DBing is geared toward the spouse who wants to save the M. There isn't as much directed to the WAS......and even less for a wayward. But I was very blessed with some mentors who helped me a lot.
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But I am curious why the dynamics in your sitch seemed so different...
Different how? In comparison to yours or someone else? The last time you asked about my situation, I wrote a very long post about it. I don't mind answering questions, but I don't understand what you are getting at, in your question above. Is the point you are trying to make is that since I did not separate, that I should not advise it for you? If that's the case, then say so. It takes time for me to write about my own situation, and if all you want in it is to say, "But you never left your H, so how can you tell me that's what I should do"? B/c I have studied this subject of waywards for ten years. I have seen what works and what doesn't work. In-house S doesn't work......especially as a way of enforcing your boundary. How could it? Physical S is not a guarantee your M will be saved, but it has a heck of a better chance than in-house S. What other choices do you have, if you plan to enforce your boundary?
If she will end her A and be willing to do what YOU need in order to heal the MR, then separation will not be necessary. So far, she has not been willing and she continues playing the game. if you declare in-house separation, it will be nothing new or no loss for her, and she will continue her rebellious behavior. Can you explain what she would be losing if you were in-house S. In-house S is not a separation at all, b/c you share the same home, food, bills, chores, etc. You are thrown together under the same roof. Maybe others have seen it work successfully, resulting in a reconciliation with a cheater, but I can't remember one case.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
