Sandi2 you don't think that exchanging kind interactions is important if part of the reason that she became wayward was the lack of affection. I don't mean constantly pursuing her, romanticizing her but being kind and nice in your interactions? Not being there constantly in her face but enjoying your life while also in your interactions together to focus on kindness.
I get your analogy of the rope and definitely if she sees us trying to pick the rope up that means we just played a game and couldn't stick to it.
From Tread's other posts it seems the more he dropped the rope the more she reached out to OM. And I wonder if perhaps that is because she was trying to convince herself that Tread didn't care about her whatsoever.
I believe that I am aware the dropping the rope technique. But other than giving up on her what other methods are at my disposal? Do I expose the A to friends and family?
As a rule, I'm usually not in favor of exposure as a means of saving the M. If she files for a D, and nothing has worked to save the M......I would be honest with my family, and maybe a few select friends that I thought deserved to know the truth behind the D. Some people recommend exposure as a way to end the A, so that would have to be your personal decision. I would caution you, however, there can be a fallout from exposure. So, think carefully before doing something you'll regret.
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Also I have question in regards to the sexual behaviors of WW. If this is too personal, then no need to respond. But do WW imagine being with OM when having sex with their H?
Absolutely!
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Also OM and potential OM2 are fat and out of shape. Physically I would assume that W would want to step up there?
Tread, you don't get it. This has nothing to do about either OM's looks. It has everything to do about the thrill she gets from the affair.
Here's what I see. You are trying to apply logic to your wayward wife. One distinct sign of a wayward, is how they have no logical sense. They think they are so smart, but they do and say the most stupid things. You continue to believe she thinks like she use to think, and that her tastes, morals, etc. are still the same. They aren't. Her normal regard for right & wrong has been overridden by a corrupt, selfish, wayward mindset. She is in rebellion against you and the M. If this was back in the day before she married, she probably would not have considered these other guys for a minute. She has changed from the girl you M. She resents you and disrespects you.......and now she is in rebellion by having this affair, and planning on more if OM#1 doesn't work out (which shows you she is not truly in love with him). Bouncing from man to man shows the dive her morals have taken. As long as she can go from man to man without facing consequences........why would you expect her to stop?
Understand what I am going to say next. She is not going to suddenly wake up one day and realize she really loves her H b/c he's a good man, is better looking, has more money than the other men, or b/c he does not deserve how she's treated him. It is not going to happen! There has to be something that personally affects her, due to her decisions to betray her H. Something has to give her brain the message that she has really split her pants by betraying her H and she is facing consequences b/c of that action, and it's not going to get better until she changes. That's one reason I tell H's not to take the WW back too easily. She should feel remorse and be willing to do the necessary work to have a good MR. Yes, the WW can change. However, she isn't going to change as long as she gets what she wants without the work of change.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
"That's one reason I tell H's not to take the WW back too easily. She should feel remorse and be willing to do the necessary work to have a good MR. Yes, the WW can change. However, she isn't going to change as long as she gets what she wants without the work of change."
What if she is in MC and actively incorporates the tools and resources? And as such changes herself just as much as we change ourselves?
This is where I'm confused in regards to dropping the rope. I get the part where I should stop caring and just allow W to land flat on her face without running over to save her. But what in regards to the 180s. For example, my W this week and a bunion pop up and could barely walk. My naturally instinct was to get ice, motrin and help her out. Afterwards, I wondered if I should have just let her deal with it on her own. Another example if W is cooking am I allowed to go in there and assist? Just trying to figure out what does dropping the rope truly mean in our future interactions.
Hi guys am now wondering if I am also mentally beginning to let go of the rope. Yes, we have our (secret to her) 20th celebrations coming up, the family holiday coming up, etc. but I really don't seem to have any current interest in whether the workplace affair is still up and running, or maybe that's just my mindset this week.
Because I am now mentally chilled (and possibly detaching) more (after 6 months of gut wrenching anguish) I now seem to react to any flash thoughts about what they used to get up to (ascertained through the text messages when I used to check them) by thinking I might not forgive her after all, don't know to be quite honest. When I think she pursued him through pure lust (just because he made a fuss of her; he later called her a "siren") and the "deep love" seemed to develop concurrently and (similarly to other posters here) later performed an act on him that I have certainly never been on the receiving end of you do indeed wonder about their mental state don't you? Especially as this has all seemed to take place "on the premises".
Like I said if this is still going on, so be it (such is my current mindset). I would be naturally disappointed (to say the least) as it is supposed to be out in the open now. Intriguingly a couple of weeks back she suggested an early night during the week (pretty much unheard of throughout the marriage) and in the "buildup" kept asking me to **** her, again pretty much unprecedented. Relief of tension or what? So I suspect there are more similarities within all our stories than meets the eye!
Me 55, W 50 D 8 M 20 T 27 MIL w/ us BD 01/02/17 workplace A (12/09/16, EA -> PA) OM senior manager, long term W, child 14 now: limbo (my choice)
"Don't care what you may do, we got that attitude!" - Bad Brains
Hi...newcomer here...I'm not sure this is the right place to post..so if not, please correct me!
..I discovered over the last 3-4 years, my W has been a WW and had 3 A's with 3 different married OM's...I eventually figured it out, compiled my own evidence...confronted her several times and she simply lied to my face...all the while using all the chat apps with encryption...my instincts were ALWAYS right in retrospect...it's amazing how that is...
recently, the day I basically caught her, it was like she finally gave up and admitted it (it was a relief to hear it from her own mouth but not any less painful given the thousands of lies preceding)...so, I told her to end it as a mandatory step... and she didn't agree to that...I went through complete hell for about three days...that's when I discovered this website..I applied a few of the concepts...an important one was moving her bedding out of the MBR....within less than 24 hours, she claims she has ended the current A with OM....this seems like a positive step..but I need to make sure she's sorry for the A's and not sorry she was caught
I have withdrawn all kinds of clingy actions on my part, begging, etc....no hugging, cuddling...etc....some recommended DB'ing techniques...
now that she claims to have ended the A, do I alter my behavior to seek MC with her?? her recent A was with a co-worker who she eats lunch with daily or frequently...do I demand this discontinue?
I just got the DR book ..I understand the importance of GAL, and realize I need to work on myself FOR myself...
I love W and I believe she loves me...what's the next step?
Hi...newcomer here...I'm not sure this is the right place to post..so if not, please correct me!
Please start your own thread - here is how
How to start a thread
I will use what Job wrote
First Click on Newcomers then:
Originally Posted By: job
Go to the top of the screen and there is a new topic box on the left hand side. Click on it and then you will open the window to create a new subject as well as a posting. It's the same way that you created this thread.
Sandi2 you don't think that exchanging kind interactions is important if part of the reason that she became wayward was the lack of affection.
Hummm, tricky question. Well first of all, we are talking about a wayward wife in an affair, right? Secondly, what do you call "kind"? I hope you'll stay balanced while I attempt to give my VP. I think if a LBH focuses on being kind and nice, it will mess with his focus on other things. B/c the WW is a user and a player and she can turn on the charm at the drop of a hat, and it confuses the heck out of her H. Sure, she will probably respond to his kindness, unless she suspects he misunderstands their true staus. He start thinking she's coming around, calling it baby steps, etc. Nope, she just played him. It makes him very vulnerable when she starts acting "nice" to him.
I would suggest not falling back on kindness as your plan for drawing your WW back. I have never told anyone to be unkind to their spouse. However, let me say this much......since we are on the subject. The H's kindness is not what draws her feelings of respect for him. It doesn't draw her attraction, either. Not while she is wayward. She won't even fully appreciate it, as long as she has the fantasy of OM in her head. She will see the H's kindness as weakness. I mean, she's not going to tell him to not be kind to her, but she won't give up her affair due to her H's kind interactions. If the tables were reversed, she knows she would not react with kindness. Therefore, she is more likely to feel less respect for him being so kind to her while she betrays him. She sees his kindness as him being weak. To say it in more simple terms, you cannot "nice" a WW back into the MR.
Now with that said, let me add that I am not telling LBH's to be mean or ugly to their WW. There are times the H should most definitely show kindness.......such as when the WW is legitimately sick, injured, has a loved to pass away, etc. If she is involved with another man, then I suggest the H should have civil interactions with her, especially if she knows he knows of her A. Once she ends the A and has NC with OM, then he can be kind, thoughtful, sweet, generous, etc. The one thing a WW respects is strength. Some men confuse kindness to mean softness, just like some confuse detaching to mean cold. He cannot afford to be soft with a WW. As long as she is showing disrespect for him in some fashion, everything he does and says should come from the view of commanding respect. Until he has her respect, he won't have her love.... the way a W should love her H. He could be soft, gentle, nice, kind, etc......but it won't get her respect.
I see newcomers get confused about 180's and more of the same behavior. H's fear standing up to the WW, using action instead of lip service, detaching, enforcing boundaries, leaving her alone to GAL, etc..........and often they say, "Won't this show more of the same behavior as in the past"? I think men with the NGS fear some of the things we suggest, b/c they don't believe they have the b@lls for it. Nice-guys want to be all sweet & gentle and nice their WW back. But, it doesn't work, when they come across as passive, weak, supplicating, and cowardly. And hear this........lack of affection or attention does not excuse her waywardness, nor an affair. I was asked as a WW, "Why didn't you just D your H"? "It would have been more honorable". WW's are not about honor.
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From Tread's other posts it seems the more he dropped the rope the more she reached out to OM. And I wonder if perhaps that is because she was trying to convince herself that Tread didn't care about her whatsoever.
I had read Tread's threads previously, however, I went back to read them again. I did not see Tread ever dropping the rope. He wasn't even getting out to GAL without her. He's nowhere close to detaching. What I was seeing was him being passive. In his attempt to not show anger, he didn't show much else, either. . Hopefully, that will change.
Tread's W has been involved in inappropriate behavior with men........not just one man, but men. She plans to continue. That sounds like the makings of a serial cheater. Do I believe this all stems from Treads neglect? Absolutely not! You guys are too soft and give the WW way too much benefit of doubt. She does not become wayward b/c she feels her H does not care enough about her.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Point taken. This is actually the first time of me trying to drop the rope. My 180 was trying not to tell at the obvious b.s. my W was pulling. But apparently me being nice was taken for weakness. Something I believed in heavily before learning about 180s and reading DR. Also I was GAL without W, especially considering she would never participate in the things I do. But we did go out and do things together as a family. Especially things that we have been known to attend for years.
That to me has to be the hardest thing, because we look forward to attending these things as a family. Your right about my W cheating not steaming fee rom neglect. My MIL has a habit of sleeping around and messing with other people H. And her mother and other female family members do the same. They have serious generational curse in that family. And my W had been the exception until recently.
At this point, I'm wondering how tobtruly command respect. I have some ideas. One being is to get this home more organized. So I want to come up with a cleaning schedule as well as set aside time to handle the finances. Also I want tobsee the people in my household spend more time reading a book rather than looking at a screen. So I wonder if that would be a start or do I just sound like I'm reaching?
. Hopefully, that will change.