Here again part 10

[cadence]

I just feel like this time the advice is semi different. I felt like you guys had hope that things would turn around this time that's not the case. I think that makes me more crappy feeling. More wanting to run in the other direction in my mind.

The advice is semi-different. As Sandi2 so eloquently discussed, this is a WH, not a WAH. He's resentful and blames you for his unhappiness. And I think of most of us sense that if your H is to come around, it will take time.

The advice you are getting is about you now. An H who does not respect you and thinks you are trying to control him needs to see a shift, where you are no longer a doormat and that you care for yourself more than you care about keeping him happy with you. Why? Because those are the actions of a woman who knows her worth, T, and that's what we're trying to get across to you.

T, you have significant abandonment fears that are making this so incredibly painful for you. It's a painful situation in general, but you are putting yourself in a constant spin cycle because you're trying to see "what it all means", usually with you speculating with some statements that indicate that you think H defines your value or your worth. That's entirely unnecessary and very untrue, T.

The advice you are getting is different simply because it adapts to what is happening in real time. Not because anyone is saying anything about the chances of this working out longer term.

I fear the permanence. I think I look at last time and just think can't you stop this before it gets too far and it's forever and I can't ever forgive you. Before you do so much damage you won't or can't come back. Besides the financial fear. That's the other fear.

Here's that abandonment fear in action.

You have no control over another person, T. You can't "stop this" because it involved another person; thinking that you can is leading you to allow boundaries to be crossed.

There is no forever, T. You are on a site with so many stories. However, those who do have successful Rs with WH/WWs have one thing in common: they accepted that their S wanted to go and they opened up the door and let them do that. They did it in a way that showed the wayward that they knew their worth. Those that didn't get to the point of the S physically leaving all had elements of the WH/WW experiencing consequences and learning what they were going to lose. And the R that last involve piecing, and a LBS that GAL, and didn't let the wayward back easily.

All of the advice you're getting adhere to the themes in the above paragraph. We're still trying to do what is best for you and give this the best shot of it turning around, but we're all pretty clear that the answer - if there is one - is about you setting boundaries and realizing your worth.
It's about facing your fears and dropping the rope. And those things also happen to set you up for a happy life without H, should he not have an epiphany down the road.

No one's given up T, and things that look permanent and scary to you aren't necessarily that. You've got numerous women posting in this very thread who are proof to the contrary.

[OwnIt]

Do not pay $1,000 for a consultation. I am in a specialty area of the law where salaries are much higher than family law. I do not ever charge a consultation fee. It is the opportunity for the lawyer and the client to see if the fit is right.

[25yearsmlc]

no one charges that much for a CONSULT fee and they sure as heck would use it toward the retainer.

Insane and unacceptable so there, you have 2 L's saying it's time to keep shopping for another L.

I spoke to 2 for free (not that long, less than or 1/2 an hour)

and I paid one $125 for a phone call of about 30 minutes (a father's rights guy who annoyed me a lot, and

finally, I paid $300 for an hour consult in which I had most of my more technical legal questions answered, and he was the senior partner.

That's who I hired, though it's his senior associate handling the case (I have the choice to use the senior partner, but that costs more. They do confer so in a way I get 2 opinions for less than If I'd paid them both...or so I think).

Again - keep shopping

[25yearsmlc]

[quote=T384]Oh geez I didn't even realize there was a second page when I just replied to Trains post, thank you everyone!

Ginger- we have kept separate accounts since last BD, we have a joint account we use for bills but we both just put money in there as needed.

I acknowledged the fear in my previous post to train and what you said Cadence is unfortunately spot on. I fear the permanence.

I think I look at last time and just think can't you stop this before it gets too far and it's forever and I can't ever forgive you. Before you do so much damage you won't or can't come back.

if that^^^ "too much damage" has not already happened (and I think your fears prevent you from seeing the full extent of the wounds, - see Blu's thread sometime -)


you somehow think that scrambling to keep him & "save the m" and not dropping the rope, helps you or the m cause.

And I DO NOT GET THAT^^^. Dropping the rope helps you more than anything you have done, to save the m OR to leave it & move forward.


The movie Swingers has a part you should read

Check this out

From Swingers the Movie

Mike:
Okay, so what if I don't want to give up on her?

Rob:
You don't call.

Mike:
But you said I don't call if I wanted to give up on her.

Rob:
Right.

Mike:
So I don't call either way?

Rob:
Right.

Mike:
So what's the difference?

Rob:
There is no difference right now. See, Mike, the only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. But you can't do anything to make her want to come back. In fact, you can only do stuff to make her not want to come back.

Mike:
So the only difference is if I forget about her or just pretend to forget about her?

Rob:
Right.

Mike:
Well that [censored].

Rob:
Yeah, it [censored].

Mike:
So it's just like a retroactive decision, then? I mean I could, like, forget about her and then when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her?

Rob:
Right. Although probably more likely the opposite.

Mike:
What do you mean?

Rob:
I mean at first you're going to pretend to forget about her, you'll not call her, I don't know, whatever... but then eventually, you really will forget about her.

Mike:
Well what if she comes back first?

Rob:
Mmmm... see, that's the thing, is somehow they know not to come back until you really forget.

Mike:
There's the rub.

Rob:
There's the rub.


T3

start hearing us, or your head will hurt from beating it against the wall.

I mean that as kindly as i can.

you have so much fear, you won't let go and you are in your own way

[T384]

I hear you guys ... do you not think to him it looks like I'm letting go??

I don't call or text. If he texts about kids I respond. He got packages delivered I didnt bother sending him a text they were here. He comes in the house doesn't acknowledge me only asks a question about the baby I answer and say nothing more. No goodnight etc. I don't ask about his day where he is who he's with why he's coming in here at 10pm etc etc. that's a big change from what it had been.

I know I still have A lot To do and my words here and my feelings I know I haven't dropped the rope but posting here saves me from doing things IRL...

Short of making a schedule and getting the ball rolling on legal aspects in regard to H I don't think there's much more behavior I can change from an outside perspective. Now it's what's in my head I really have to work on.

[25yearsmlc]

Okay I apologize in advance for saying something that in the short term, will hurt. But hand to God, I think you need to hear this...

Yes you are getting different advice than last time from some of us. Especially the vets who have had some experience with recons, recons that fail, lousy piecing, but who all support trying to save marriages.

But this is the 2nd time around. AND you have a new baby, a new home, you're in school and your h's timing could not be worse. Oh and He began this crap During a pregnancy...

and the suckdom of that ^^^reality is so heavy, so surreal, you don't think you can wrap your brain around it...you don't think your heart can take this blow, so you resist mightily. So much fear...I'm deeply sorry.

But yeah, the advice you are getting is going to be different than last time b/c there was a last time, and

it's like you want to skim over that^^ cruel reality. Which I totally understand...

Then you ask us questions as if this is the first time he's ever been absent or nasty or dishonest.

Or you ask us why we don't think he'll wake up, or regret it, or if he's gone too far or why we don't speak with more hope, or why he does not act X way or why isn't he doing what he did LAST TIME....

For me It's partly b/c it's not the first time...

That's a big factor in the advice given. And you are not hearing it b/c, of course, it's so ugly and painful. Been there, done that. It is truly horrific, and I think I've got some PTSD from it, truly. I pity the first guy I date...I'll apologize in advance to him!

I just think you are prolonging the agony, And not protecting yourself enough.


Finally
whatever actual chance exists of your h smacking his forehead with massive realizations

and saying "OMG!! I'm making the (2nd) biggest mistake of my life and I'm going to lose my kids and T3 and my self respect and blow up a family for nothing!!! I've deeply hurt the 4 people who loved me the most!

Geez, I better overcome this -and change my mindset, & my mood weirdness, & my behaviors - oh those - and I commit to doing a TON of work on ME, over a LOT of time to prove and earn my wife's trust back, never whining about how long it takes, and I need/want/will work to be a great, consistent present h and dad..."'

is NOT MORE likely b/c you won't move forward in your life or show him what he's losing.

Change ^^that. I know you can.

But I don't have other ways to say this. I'm rooting for you.

((( )))

[25yearsmlc]

I hear you guys ... do you not think to him it looks like I'm letting go??


well, not internally at least. Based on questions about whether he'll come back and how you cannot believe he'd do this again, where's the hope? How do I react to him or what to say if he says 'hello', "what if he does not text/come home/calls OW in the house/texts/rides his bike/lies about X", etc etc.


I don't call or text. If he texts about kids I respond. He got packages delivered I didnt bother sending him a text they were here. He comes in the house doesn't acknowledge me only asks a question about the baby I answer and say nothing more. No goodnight etc. I don't ask about his day where he is who he's with why he's coming in here at 10pm etc etc. that's a big change from what it had been.

This is all good^^^^. Just Make sure you keep at it, please

I know I still have A lot To do and my words here and my feelings I know I haven't dropped the rope but posting here saves me from doing things IRL...

understood


Short of making a schedule and getting the ball rolling on legal aspects in regard to H I don't think there's much more behavior I can change from an outside perspective. Now it's what's in my head I really have to work on.

yes it is. You will get there. FWIW, I also truly believe that "where the head goes, the heart will follow"

let that happen.

You will be alright down the road. I don't know how long that road is but I do think you can control more of this than you realize.

Hang in there!

[Train]

I just feel like this time the advice is semi different. I felt like you guys had hope that things would turn around this time that's not the case.
The advice is different because the circumstances are different. Your attitude and outlook are different. You are a new mom. Your spirit is, frankly, very weak right now. You are beaten down. You are showing signs of being exhausted and emotional. (UNDERSTANDABLY SO!) It's not that our advice is different per se. You are just in a different place with your M, and we are giving you the advice you need to hear for now. We are not telling you there's no hope. We are telling you that the *only way there's hope* is if you do what we're advising. And that involves a big, healthy dose of tough love from you to your H ... and from us to you.

So my main fear - me pushing all this permanent stuff means we are done. FOREVER.
How 'bout I'm not even going to dignify that ridiculous comment with a response? Because cadence has only been over this with you a dozen times. I swear if I read "done" or "forever" in your threads one more time, I'm going to snap. Please stop with that nonsense.


That he sees me so horribly that he can't bear to be with me and would rather not see his kids everyday than be here with me. Thathe cant see that things won't or aren't the way he says they are (me living in the past, thinking he's a cheater, that he will never change etc etc).
Channeling Blu: WahWahWahhhhWahhhhWahWah

It's about to get really ugly once this legal road starts not that it's not ugly now but a whole new type of ugly trucking my boys between two homes etc. right now they get to be in their home every night and that's what they want.
Yeah. You're right: it already IS really ugly. Your H is buying flowers for other women on Valentine's Day. He's shaving his manhood. He's buying a motorcycle. He's deciding what he's going to sell - NOT THE MOTORCYCLE! - to fund his life without you. He wanted to work instead of attend the birth of his son. He tells you to your face that you're nothing to him anymore. He is having packages for another woman delivered to your door. He's sleeping while you handle y'all's three boys AND your school/work load.

Please drop the fear about splitting the kids. It just doesn't often come to fruition the way we fear. Once the dust settles, even among divorced partners, things usually end up being better than you imagine. Just trust me on that.

And I'm not sure I could tell him we will be a great happy family after this. He knows I don't believe that... I'm just not sure that would even be worth saying because I believe he will see through what I'm saying.
It's clear you didn't pick up on my approval that you say this to H with sarcasm in your voice. (Just mask the actual physical eyerolls.)

[OwnIt]

T,

I don't think for one second he thinks you are dropping the rope. If you want to scare the living sh*t out of him and do something positive for yourself, don't say one word to him and go file for custody and support. That will send the message loud and clear. When he freaks out and comes to you, smile and tell him that you are happy to work out an agreement to save you all money on lawyer fees now that there are two households to pay for. Doing that might stop his house purchase in its tracks, but if I understand correctly you wouldn't be crying salty tears about that.

My best friend is the head of the family law section for the FL bar. Give me some area where you are located and I'll see if I can get some lawyer recs for you.

[T384]

Hi Cadence - sorry I missed your post last night,

Yes, he believes it is ME that has caused all of this. That he came back, tried his best, and it still wasn’t good enough for me. That when I found out about the flowers, his answer wasn’t good enough. That we had to discuss it for an hour and it still wasn’t good enough. When in reality, as the C told him, he didn’t reassure me in the way I needed to. And instead of showing me after our conversation he didn’t mean anything by it, his behavior became more strange and questionable, that he wasn’t doing anything to earn my trust. H’s defense was what the hell do I do? I go to work and come home, when do I have time for anything else. I don’t need another woman in my life, another headache, I have enough of that already.

I don’t know why I am this way, and if I could change it, harness it, embrace it and move forward I would. C said I have PTSD component and that last time H lied to me so much that even when he answers me with the truth the first time if I don’t believe it I have to keep asking the same question because when I ask the 10th time it might be a difference answer like last BD.

But yes, I know he doesn’t respect me, if he did we wouldn’t be here in the first place. He didn’t respect me or our unborn baby enough to not BD when I was 32 weeks pregnant. I know there is no ‘forever’ but that’s how my brain sees it. I know it’s not so black and white. I mean when I say I know, my brain knows that that is the rational truth but for some reason I don’t let it sink into my situation. Trying to figure out how I can ‘know’ all of these things, when I read them they make sense and I totally agree but yet here I am…

I’ve let him go as far as his freedom, no questioning where he is, his plans, who he talks to, there really is little to no interaction. He has text me the last two nights to let me know he’s leaving work and asks if I need anything, I wait a bit and write a short no, we’re good. I’m sure he can sense, like Ownit said, that I haven’t dropped the rope because I am still letting him come here. But my dad is really on my you know what about not pushing that issue, he wants me to just leave it be, move forward, take legal action, and just let him dig his own hole. So I’m torn.

He has no consequences, yet. He wants to sell OUR boats, the boats the boys go fishing on, but not a word about his motorcycle. He’s sooooo broke, yet just had a 2500 off road suspension for his truck delivered to our house yesterday, the freight delivery alone was probably more than some of our monthly expenses. He also had his steroid injections (which is a few hundred bucks) delivered to our house too. You’d think he would at least be smart enough to have it sent elsewhere.

But anyway, yes I appreciate you all. I know I am annoying, frustrating, pathetic, all of the above. I listen to the advice I give others and just want to apply all of that to my sitch. I’ve got to get in my own head and figure out why I know this stuff, I know what I need to do, it all makes sense, yet for some reason I’m not there yet. Why can’t I make myself just do it and get there and not look back. I know it’s fear and hope, I need to get rid of both of those feelings so that they don’t drive my everyday moves.

25 – it is a VERY cruel reality. Like why am I not worth enough to not put through this again. Why can’t you respect me enough to not add to my plate of crap. Why did you have to take away from this time with our precious newborn son… blah blah blah, you guys have heard it all before.

Like you said, I know I have PTSD from it.. it truly suks.

Train – so how do I make myself feel better… I have no desire to do much of anything if I’m being completely honest, when I do things I’m forcing myself, I’m sure it will get better in time but I am so overwhelmed and inundated with school crap I don’t have time to do much of anything, TBH I shouldn’t even be posting here as much but it’s the only thing helping keep my sanity in the moment. I have gone to the gym a few times but frankly I’m exhausted, the baby is still up multiple times in the middle of the night and still has his fussy period from 11p-1a. Between going to school, doing papers, logging patients, exams, kids, soccer, house, bills, etc. I am hanging on… I am supposed to be going out with a few moms from the boy’s school (nobody knows anything) and I’m dreading going, but I’m going to make myself go tomorrow night.
Okay so no more done or forever – I can’t make promises but I will try to pay extra attention to using those words.

Ha, I know you meant lay it on THICK with the conversation, but I’m not even sure I’m in the place to even have that conversation in this moment, maybe in a few days it will be so. I am toying with filing for custody and support without having a conversation with him. What do you think about that? Does a conversation need to be had or should I just file without talking? Point being, like I told my dad, I don’t trust him and he hasn’t given me a reason to at this point. So I’m not sure his ‘word’ about a schedule and finances would mean anything and would just delay the action of getting something in writing. I also believe I’ll be met with excuses about how he cannot afford X Y Z which really isn’t my problem..

Ownit –can you email me? I would be super appreciative of some well known recommendations… I haven’t met anyone I really ‘like’ yet. I want a pit bull LOL. I am on the east coast south of Jacksonville by a couple hours. East of Orlando, if that helps?

My dad says I want him to buy a house because then it’s half mine??



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