Finding my way in the dark - Part 2

[Holding]

Thanks for the responses, OwnIT and Rose. I was really disturbed that she was throwing these things out. There were also pictures from baby showers, and a wristband from the hospital. To me it shows a high level of detachment from her own kids, which is really disturbing.

Apparently S10 ended up sleeping with W in the guest bedroom last night. He frequently wakes up in the middle of the night, so he must have gone in there at that point. I think the talk with the kids will be coming soon.

[AnotherStander]

Something I've never mentioned in this whole thing is that W may be having a MLC as well. Lots of weight loss, interest in new activities, new clothes.

From what you've described in your threads my guess is WW rather than MLC, not that it's ever black and white but what you describe above is pretty typical WW stuff. For years and I mean YEARS I tried to get my W to ditch her granny panties (and I'm not joking, think huge, baggy, beige underpants) and get something sexy. I was surprised when she finally did (not long before BD), but little did I know it wasn't for me, LOL! You know, WW's always gripe about how we didn't try for so many years but it's not like they were working their little tails off to make us happy either. Anyway I learned my lesson, I didn't give my GF a choice, we were at the mall and I took her into Victoria Secret and said "we're buying you some sexy stuff" and I didn't take no for an answer. Interestingly she found it to be a huge turn-on, that a guy wasn't afraid to go into a VS store and would actually help her pick out sexy underclothes.

[Rose888]

Thanks for the responses, OwnIT and Rose. I was really disturbed that she was throwing these things out. There were also pictures from baby showers, and a wristband from the hospital. To me it shows a high level of detachment from her own kids, which is really disturbing.

Apparently S10 ended up sleeping with W in the guest bedroom last night. He frequently wakes up in the middle of the night, so he must have gone in there at that point. I think the talk with the kids will be coming soon.

Eh, stuff is stuff. I'm pretty darn attached to the actual kids, just not their hospital wristbands.

Do you see evidence of detachment in her interactions with the kids?

[Holding]

Eh, stuff is stuff. I'm pretty darn attached to the actual kids, just not their hospital wristbands.

I totally get that. If she'd never kept all these things in separate keepsake boxes in her closet (she also threw the boxes away), then it wouldn't really be an issue. The thing is, she was attached to this stuff until fairly recently. Then something changed inside her and she no longer wanted it.

Do you see evidence of detachment in her interactions with the kids?

TBH, I suppose there hasn't really been a change. But the thing is, she's always had a level of detachment when it comes to the kids. I was always the one tucking them in at night. I would sit with them and read with them. When they woke up crying, it was me who put them back to sleep. Anyway, very soon I guess none of this will matter any more.

[Holding]

AS, thanks for your opinion.

Funny you should mention VS panties. A week ago W mentioned in passing that she needed new panties cause the old ones no longer fit. So she went shopping and came back with a bag of panties from VS. I never even commented on the VS bag that she left sitting in the closet for a week. I knew they weren't for me.

[sandi2]

So just to recap, W said she wanted D on Thursday morning. Thursday during the day, she texted me a funny pic. I'm thinking, why is she sending me this, and I never responded

You not responding is perfect. It is a strange behavior many WW's do, in an attempt to stay in the LBH's life. She doesn't want you for a H, but she wants you to stay emotionally attached to her. And, should you begin pulling away, she'll temp check to see how emotionally attached you are, even after separation, and maybe divorce.

She asked if I got her pic, and I said yes. She started saying something about she thought I would like it. I just said uh huh and went to sleep.

My guess is that was the first time you have not responded to something she sent you. She noticed! She is going to temp check you more.

I found myself pull up to our church. I ended up talking to a deacon for an hour and a half. He made me feel a little better about things, how this is not my fault and I'm not a failure, how my wife obviously had issues that go back to her childhood. He even mentioned an annulment might be possible, which was something I hadn't even been thinking about. It was nice to think I might be able to get my life back on a good track and be able to stand proud and look myself in the mirror

.

Nothing you have not received from the board. However, having someone IRL you can trust enough to discuss your situation is very valuable.

Just as I was getting in the car, W gets home. She knocks on my window and asks why I didn't answer the phone at home. I said I'd just gotten home and wasn't there when she called. She asked me what I was doing and I said going off. She asked where I'm going and I said "Don't worry about it". This obviously frustrated her and she said, "Oh, OKAY

".

LOL, I love it. That is exactly how to respond to her nosy questions. Perfect example of being vague.

I drove around for a while and then met up with my friend at a local Tiki bar (YES!), and we ate, drank, and talked for two hours. I talked honestly about my problems and he talked about his. It was probably the most personal and real conversation I'd ever had with another man. It was great and really made me feel better.

Very good! I think it is so important that men spend quality time with male friends.

I noticed she kept looking at me on the sofa, almost staring at me trying to make eye contact. I ignored her. I'm sure she noticed I wasn't wearing my wedding ring, but she never said anything.

I'll tell you what grabbed her attention a lot more that you not wearing your ring. For the first time, you've acted just a tad mysterious. Now, she is has her thoughts on you, and wondering what you may be up to. See? We try to tell you guys, but you don't take it seriously.

Going to this park is a yearly thing for us, so being there, with a woman who looks like my W but now wants a divorce, was surreal. She kept trying to make small talk with me (seriously?), and I gave her minimal responses

Good job! What would have been more impressive would have been if you had not tagged along. She would have wondered all day what you were doing. I know, I know.....I can hear your response without you saying a word. I've heard it from hundreds of LBH's. I'm just saying what would have worked better, than you participating in family activities. (Including watching TV). Taking son to the Y is wonderful. How many times have you left her alone to go out without the kids? Humm? When she sees you leaving with the boys, she sees it as "safe". To see you leave without the boys would be seen as mysterious. See what I mean?

We talked about telling the kids. I told her I couldn't stand in front of the kids and pretend this was something I wanted. I shared Sandi's story about the LBH who lost out on his relationship with his dad. I said I wasn't willing to lie to my kids about the reason, and risk my relationship with them. She said, "So am I going to be the bad guy?"

I tried to tell you. All she cares about is that she's not seen as the bad guy! She isn't concerned what it does to your R with the boys. She is the bad guy!! Look, you don't have to out her in front her children when you have the talk. However, I think your sons deserve to know their father is not forsaking the family/home. Don't you believe it is important to them as young males, to have that role model in their dad? She is the one pushing for the D, so she can very well put on her big girl panties to face her sons. But see, the WW doesn't want to do that. She wants the H to take the fall. Stick to your guns! Email or call Christy and get that letter from Michele. Then you can decide how you want to handle it.

I said I couldn't do the small talk and friendly banter with her any more. It didn't feel right. We can do it for the kids in front of them, but not between just us, and not in text. Talking about the kids or other important issues like finances is one thing, but all the other stuff needs to stop. W was bothered by this and said she can't live like that.

Yep! Another WW sign. Good for you, although, she'll try to put up a good front when her parents arrive. She wants to appear like one big happy family and the two of you are BFF's. When you don't play her game, she tries to act like the victim.

Then she dragged out the dead horse of the MR. She said there's no trust between us and there's no way to get it back. I told her that she doesn't know that, but she was unwilling to listen since I didn't know anyone personally who'd been through a situation like ours and their M survived. I told her I'd read stories online and that there are retreats and workshops where people can work on SERIOUS M problems like ours (talking about Retrovaille, but didn't name it). She didn't express any interest.

Okay, I get it. But the more you protest about a D, the more she's going to push for it. Have you considered giving her just a glimpse of how your relationship will be after D? I know as long as you live under the same roof that she won't get the full picture, however, you could do a few things differently. Once the kids are told, there will be no need for pretenses. And I'm sure you would like to wait as long as possible before having that talk, but my advice is not wait till the last minute. And do NOT leave it up to her to tell them without you there. Her having to explain to the boys is fine, but you must be there to make sure what is said. She will sugarcoat everything, if you allow it.

Then she started going on about how I wouldn't tell her where I was on Saturday. This had apparently REALLY gotten to her. She said she always tells me where she's going. What if something happened to me? How would she know? I said I'm sure she'd eventually find out if something did happen. But she kept coming back to it and wouldn't let it go. She asked if I would have still gone out and not told her, if we hadn't had the D talk Thursday morning. I said maybe I still would have, and I asked her what the point of this was. She couldn't really tell me the point. I think this was about control, not any real sense of jealousy on her part. She's always been very nosy, wanting to know everything.

Exactly! WW's want to know every move the H makes, but she doesn't want him sticking his nose into what she's doing. Trust me, she only tells you what she wants you to believe. From this point going forward (or until reconciliation), you need to give her less and less answers to her questions about what, where, who, and what time you'll be home.

She said with all the changes I've made - skydiving, making new friends, getting new clothes, wearing cologne, getting a passport, joining the Y - and now going out without telling her where, it's like she doesn't know me as the same Holding she knew for the past 21 years. I told her I was sorry those things upset her, but I took a deep look inside and realized I wanted to make some changes to myself.

Good answer! I would have said, "Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you". Yes, it's about control, and WW's are more jealous than they'll ever admit.

The convo started winding down, and I was tired. I put on my sleeping mask and earplugs. I could hear her sighing sporadically for about another 15 minutes before I fell asleep. I didn't respond to the sighs.

You are doing great. You know......her heavy sighs were to get you to notice her and ask if anything was bothering her. She doesn't like it when you can dismiss her easily.

Btw, I completely agree with AS. Everything about your W is wayward, even the detached attitude about the keepsakes of the children's birth. And as for not having a baby girl, what were you going to do, keep having babies until a female showed up? I actually knew a couple who did this, only they had all girls and the H wanted a son. After six girls, the W said enough is enough!

[Holding]

Thanks for the response, Sandi! All the "Good jobs" and "You're doing greats" really mean a lot at this point.

How many times have you left her alone to go out without the kids? Humm? When she sees you leaving with the boys, she sees it as "safe". To see you leave without the boys would be seen as mysterious. See what I mean?

Come to think of it, I think this is the first time I've gone off without the boys, and REFUSED TO TELL HER WHERE I WAS GOING OR HAD BEEN (it felt awkward but empowering, btw). I know I need to do more of this, but it's been hard. I've gone off without the boys other times, but I would tell her I was going to X place if she asked.

Email or call Christy and get that letter from Michele. Then you can decide how you want to handle it.

I did email her - waiting to hear back. Hey Cristy, you there?

Okay, I get it. But the more you protest about a D, the more she's going to push for it.

You know, I didn't realize bringing up how we could get the trust back was really a form of protesting about the D, but I see it now. I just wanted to make clear to her that this is not an irreversible course of action.

Have you considered giving her just a glimpse of how your relationship will be after D? I know as long as you live under the same roof that she won't get the full picture, however, you could do a few things differently. Once the kids are told, there will be no need for pretenses.

I think I've been giving her that glimpse in my communication with her. No more friendly texts or chatting. Just business. What other ways can I give her that glimpse?

[Cristy]

We talked about telling the kids. I told her I couldn't stand in front of the kids and pretend this was something I wanted. I shared Sandi's story about the LBH who lost out on his relationship with his dad. I said I wasn't willing to lie to my kids about the reason, and risk my relationship with them. She said, "So am I going to be the bad guy?" I told her that wasn't what I was trying to say, and I realized the kids need to have a R with her as well. She was upset that I wasn't going to play along. Interestingly, she thought the most upsetting part of Sandi's story was that the LBH was angry and resentful of his parents for getting a D. I think that shows a real lack of perspective - and frankly - selfishness on W's part.

Hello holding,

You are so smart to recognize that pretending you both agree on divorcing isn't the way to go. Of course she will try to guilt you into providing the unified front, but don't take the bait.

Cristy

Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004

[Holding]

W slept in the guest bedroom again. We agreed to tell the kids on Saturday. Hope we can fake it until then - S14 was asking why W slept separate last night. W and I are discussing the talk tonight. I'm not backing down on my position.

SiL had her baby this morning. In-laws will be coming in town, but W apparently told them not to stay with us.

I feel oddly detached from reality, like this is a dream. I just can't believe this is happening.

My poor kids.

[Holding]

Was just looking at my online banking, and noticed W has paid her L friend the retainer. Should I react? Should I pay my L's retainer ASAP?