Tread: I wonder... if it would make a difference rather than have you do everything or have her do everything you do things together? Like bills etc. My W. and I are finally doing things together...and it has bumps but now that we begun doing it: we are laughing a lot and enjoying it a lot.
I recognize a lot of my sitch in yours: I too saw my W engage in the things she complained about and I dismissed it for those reasons...and it brought us to the brink of divorce (we haven't avoided that). Just because she does ABC doesn't mean you don't have to fix ABC (or XYZ). Now if it is just YOU changing then no...
I never admitted I was wrong (sometimes it was over silly things that I got upset over...now I realize that was because I couldn't even admit the little things and I completely was deaf on the big things).
It seems to have made a HUGE difference in our interactions after I started validating her concerns, and making changes and actually sticking with those changes. In turn she has made her changes.
She keeps talking to OM (although it clearly reduced significantly) but she also hasn't expressed wanting to remain married. But she increasingly is saying more and more and acting accordingly. In my case fear for her safety played a huge role. The more I remove reasons for her to be afraid the more she has opened up. She acts on the information from the MC. It began with one thing every other day, now she is doing multiple things every day.
Maybe my approach is wrong. But in DR it says look for results...look for improvements. So unless W just wants to create a smooth peaceful ride until she leaves...then okay... either this will create the conditions for her to recommit. OR we have a great time together and she was just cake eating. At the end of the day she just now has her own bank account, and had other fears. If she is cake eating...at least there is peace in the home. And I can leave with my head held high that I am treating her with kindness. If that makes me a fool so be it. She brought someone into OUR home and she now says she will never do that. She hung out with him a week after I discovered and since hasn't. She mentioned wanting to and then respected that boundary by saying she won't hang out if we aren't in a good place or had a bad night. She keeps moving further and further away. Now next week when I am on a quick trip...she could have him over in our home or she could hang out with him. I have no way of knowing. But I cannot keep an eye on her 24/7. So I made a choice to trust her. Especially with her recent actions.
Now in your sitch it seems your W is denying her actions despite you having proof. I cannot remember reading if you shown her the evidence you gathered. But when I did my W was initially hostile and said so what and slowly showed remorse and regret and guilt. Her respect for me was below zero...and has since increased. So it is odd to me that your W denies this unless she doesn't know what you know. Or that all the things you say they shared was 7 months ago.
I have been calling bs on the whole were just friends now from the start. Which has only been getting W upset that I just won't take her her word for it. And I've been saying the same to her that she would chose to be friends with a stranger over her H that she has been with for 17 years. Which is why I believe there is more than a physical connection here. Her intent originally was for things to just be physical, but my W is way to emotional of person for things to be like that. She played herself and caught feelings for a man till this day, she hardly knows anything about.
I confronted her about the account early today. W says that she opened up the account in order to get a loan to help cover the mortgage that we had gotten behind on. The story seems to add up so far. So far there have been no signs of her hiding money.
Last week, I told her that we needed to come up with a plan to get her out of here. Don't think she expected me to say that. But I let her know that I had no intent on chasing after a woman who was chasing someone else's H. At the moment, she doesn't seem too concerned about losing anything. She wants me to keep the home. But that just might mean that she no longer wants the responsibility of home ownership anymore. Or it might mean that she wants the house to be around in case she does try to get back with me at a later time as a plan B I suppose. W did mention a few months back that if we were mean't to be together, then we would somehow find our way back to each other...smh
At this point, I have detached the best I could while living in the same home. At this point, I can't control another grown person so be it. As far as boundaries, I can't do a thing to enforce them. Other than just allowing myself to move on from W. Which I have decided to do.
My goal to make my MR work. But at this point detaching is the way to go. We actually discussed working on the bills together earlier this evening. She mentioned that she felt alone in this process over the years. I validated her concerns. But I mentioned that I have offered to help in the past and she wanted no help. W acknowledged that she did refuse my assistance. But she mentioned it was because she felt I would judge her methods of handling things. Which goes back to my issue with her. W judges me based off things she thinks I will say, rather than me actually saying anything. But I still validated her concerns there and hopefully starting tomorrow we can make things happen.
I show W the proof, she gets angry and tries fighting to get the proof away from me. W is aware of the initial proof of the A months ago. But she is denying that the A is still happening. Claiming that they are just friends now.
that sounds rough. But it also sounds like if you both recognize the issues each of you needs to work on that maybe the two of you can figure it out. there is a lot of validation happening in your first paragraph...but there are also fears and concerns.
maybe once that happens will she let go of A...and since they live in different states a PA is pretty much not happening. Maybe if you stop asking her will be a step where she will agree to stop talking to him?
At this point W is being stubborn and doesn't want to bother. It's going to take a hard life lesson for her to finally get it. Also I'm almost certain that there is a OM2 who is local. A so call friend who announced that he had been interested in her for years. But Didn't say anything until she mentioned possibly divorcing me. This guy like the OM1 has a W and 3 kids also. W would catch up with this guy once every 5 months before. Now they text and call several times a month. W claims that he is just calling to check on her during this troubled time period for her...smh. But I know this guy is in her ear pushing for the divorce. I don't have proof that an A is happening with this other guy. But my gut says she maybe keeping around for attention at least.
I have been calling bs on the whole were just friends now from the start. Which has only been getting W upset that I just won't take her her word for it. And I've been saying the same to her that she would chose to be friends with a stranger over her H that she has been with for 17 years. Which is why I believe there is more than a physical connection here. Her intent originally was for things to just be physical, but my W is way to emotional of person for things to be like that. She played herself and caught feelings for a man till this day, she hardly knows anything about.
So she went into the A with intent? Do either of you feel it is less grievous if an A is for physical pleasure, only? Is this suppose to downplay the seriousness of the A?
When she brings up the subject of OM, how to do you react? It is incredibly disrespectful for her to talk about him. Of course, it's disrespectful to have any type of A, and to continue contacting the AP.
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Last week, I told her that we needed to come up with a plan to get her out of here. Don't think she expected me to say that. But I let her know that I had no intent on chasing after a woman who was chasing someone else's H. At the moment, she doesn't seem too concerned about losing anything.
Hummm, I don't know about her......but this just bought you some of my respect, of these are not just you using more words and have no intentions of backing it up.
Why would you have to help her with a plan for her to get out? Will she have to help with the mortgage payments or other major bills? I am suspicious about her separate account, and money from the joint account may start disappearing and showing up in hers. She could be telling the truth about applying for a loan, but I would be surprised if it was really to mortgage payments.
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W did mention a few months back that if we were mean't to be together, then we would somehow find our way back to each other...smh
When this statement comes from a WW, it's more her way of just giving the baby a pacifier to hush and leave her alone.
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At this point, I have detached the best I could while living in the same home. At this point, I can't control another grown person so be it. As far as boundaries, I can't do a thing to enforce them
What do you mean you can't do a thing to enforce boundaries? You just told her you weren't going to chase a woman who was chasing OM. That is a boundary. Getting her out is enforcing it.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
W tries to downplay it saying it was just sex and nothing more. Which I know for a fact is a lie. The intent was just sex, but naturally a desire came along with it. Considering that she allowed this guy to do things that she apparently holds back from me. My guess is that she got turned out and now her nose is wide open. She never brings up OM. I bring it up when I find out they have communicated. As far as I'm concerned the plan is get back on track financially before she tries to run away from her obligations to this family. She claims to have sent a check to the mortgage company already. So I'm going to wait and see what happens with that. And trust that I'm going to keep a very close eye on our joint account.
A problem I'm also trying to understand is if my W cares about me as much as she claims to. Yesterday, I got the speech that she only wants the best for me. And wishes me no ill will. Also she claims to still be in my corner. Today earlier I had done some volunteer work at the school, so she came by and brought me Taco Bell. Then she actually shared food with me. Later this evening, I went to event checking out some local musicians. Came home that W had left me a plate. When it comes to OM, I can't win. But anything outside of him, W still shows signs of caring. She has also noticed I ate smaller portions of food, during my weight loss from working out. And is always insisting that I eat more. Not sure if she just wants to see me eat more or is trying to fatten me up to make undesirable to someone else...LOL
Just curious, other than your W's current A.......have either of you had any type of inappropriate connection with someone else in the past?
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W tries to downplay it saying it was just sex and nothing more. Which I know for a fact is a lie.
So how would you have felt if it had been just for the physical sex? It's just that it's somewhat rare to have a H who doesn't place more focus on the physical part, rather than the emotional. Some H's even look at an EA as no big deal, but of course.....it is.
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She never brings up OM. I bring it up when I find out they have communicated.
What are you expecting, when you confront her. Are you wanting a confession, remorse, another R talk, or what?
If there are no consequences for her, then all you accomplish by "confronting' her is to let her know that you are watching. Is there some type of control you feel in watching? I'm just trying to figure out why you continue doing something that doesn't bring better results.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Apparently W made out with one of her childhood friends after some drinks at the bar July 4th last year. I had no clue about this until this A. Years ago, I got drunk and some random woman kissed me and I pulled away. Told W about that. Other than there has never been a connection for any of us to other people.
To be honest, I would have felt a little better if it was just sex. Especially considering OM lives in another state. If it was just physical, then we could work things out. But since there clearly is an emotional connection. Even though W and OM didn't know a thing about each other. And have nothing in common. W seems to be a bit obsessed, which causes her to put up a wall in regards to me.
When I confront her, I expect there to be at least an acknowledgement on how this hurts me. Most of the time, I want to know why OM so important that she willing to risk any relationship with me, S13, friends, co-workers and career over being so call 'friends' with this guy. And that's why I seriously believe this is more than just friendship now.
By the way the moment W began her A. She bought this album from this artist called Bryson Tiller. Basically the concept of this guys album is basically stealing women from their men. W basically played this over and over again when the A first took place. Being smart about hiding the A wasn't really a thing for her at the time. So W comes home from picking her sister up at work this morning. Goes to the bathroom to take a shower and has this blasting on the phone. And singing along to it in the shower. W doesn't have a clue that I know that when she plays this album, I know that she has just talked with OM, writing about OM or at least thinking about this guy while staring at photos of OM.
Even though W and OM didn't know a thing about each other. And have nothing in common. W seems to be a bit obsessed, which causes her to put up a wall in regards to me.
She is not in love with the real person of OM. She is in love with the fantasy of the man she wants him to be. The fact that an affair should be off limits, can increase the thrill.
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When I confront her, I expect there to be at least an acknowledgement on how this hurts me.
Not all, but most WW's in an affair (based on what I read) won't apologize or give the H the type of acknowledgement he wants to hear from her. There have been some WW's who would spit out an angry, "I'm sorry you got hurt" or even "This has nothing to do with you". It is very rare for a WW, who is having an affair, to genuinely acknowledge the pain she's causing. Partly due to her sense of entitlement and self justification.
Let's say she were to acknowledge your pain. Would it be enough? I rather doubt it, b/c you would want to know why, etc. You've said she doesn't talk about OM, except when you bring it up. Nothing is being accomplished.
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Most of the time, I want to know why OM so important that she willing to risk any relationship with me, S13, friends, co-workers and career over being so call 'friends' with this guy.
Can you see how this line of questioning is not currently productive? It leads to a relationship talk. It can't help but lead to a R talk, b/c whatever she says, will be a negative reflection toward the MR. The WW sees nothing beyond her own feelings. She turns a blind eye to everything else. We have seen a few mothers leave their babies to be with some scum ball. To me, that shows how scr@wed the wayward mindset can become.
As for why OM is so important to her, it may surprise you to know that it isn't anything necessarily important about him. In most cases, the WW affairs down, from the man her H is......to some sorry excuse for a man in the form of OM. Why would any woman in her right mind want someone of that caliber? IMHO, it is one of the signs of wayward, rebellious behavior. The A survives b/c of the high she receives. If this A fizzles out, and if she remains in her rebellious frame of mind......she will move on to another OM. She is addicted to the feelings she gets from the whole affair experience, so she will be looking for OM#2. Please understand what I am saying here.
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W doesn't have a clue that I know that when she plays this album, I know that she has just talked with OM, writing about OM or at least thinking about this guy while staring at photos of OM.
So what is your point? I mean, you are the one who is getting hurt here. She has been faced with no consequences for her rebellious behavior. Quite frankly, I don't understand how you plan to use this information. Do you bring it up whenever you confront her? If so, there is one of two things she will do. 1) Ignore your attempts to call her out, b/c she really doesn't care about your feelings; 2) Take the affair deeper underground, so it won't be quite so easy for you to track. Either way, I see no positive results in using it to confront her.
If she had agreed to end the A and have no contact with the OM, then yes, I could better understand your purpose behind gathering this intell. However, unless you intend to follow through with some plan of action.......this information does nothing to help the M.
Here's the thing.......when you call her out about her behavior, and that's all you do........she sees you as being weak. She does not respect you for confronting her and wanting to ask her more questions. Talking is all you are doing. It does not work! So, what else can you do that makes a statement about YOU and what you tolerate and what you don't?
Are you aware of Dropping the Rope Technique?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
