I just wanted to bring up a discussion to thr group. In reading up on Sandi's old poost in regards to the WS. There is a mention that by the time the spouse becomes wayward. They completely lose all respect for their significant other. So my question other than following the 37 rules, GAL, pusuring and detaching. What can a spouse do to get back that respect?
I think that is a YMMV but it seems to me that knowing what made the S lose respect is instrumental in fixing that. So if you're indecisive, a doormat, not wanting to ascend in your career, not good with money, not being dominant in bed, not taking care of your body or whatnot.
It does appear to me that addressing those things while GAL might make the WS notice. But it is probably also contingent upon the WS wanting a reconciliation or if the A was an exit affair.
Sandi2 probably can add this as well...but this is essentially my thought process with this.
You continue to be a good person. Keep your head up, be honest, be honorable. Don't get in yelling matches with a wayward. They used emotional manipulation and love to instigate fights. Why? Because they feel horrible about themselves and what they're doing but they're foolish wayward pride won't admit it so if you're being the adult, doing GAL, and living a clean honorable life, that can cause them to lash out but in the end, assuming she's not actually a sociopath or just plain bad person (some are), she'll respond positively.
If you're authentic, honorable, and a person worth of respect, then you'll get respect.
These are all great points you both have brought up. I believe the hardest part is trying to figure what your spouse actually respects anymore. Because in the middle of this nonsense, it seems as if the WS respects nothing at all.
I think the biggest thing is to exude confidence.....take care of yourself, work out, eat right, drink water. Get new clothes, etc. Ultimately if it doesn't work for her it will work for the next person. Live in the moment, remain calm, don't take the bait. If my WS notices and says something to me I will just say "Thanks" and move on. If she asks if I am doing it for her I will just "no" it's for myself. I'm not sure if this is 100% accurate but from everything I read that is the direction I am taking.
These are all great points you both have brought up. I believe the hardest part is trying to figure what your spouse actually respects anymore. Because in the middle of this nonsense, it seems as if the WS respects nothing at all.
This is the fog of the wayward mindset. You're right, they respect nothing during this time. Especially themselves. That's why so many times affairs go far beyond just the spouse. They neglect children, cut loose good friends trying to wise them up, even parents. They stop going to church, etc. etc.
They know what they're doing is wrong but they're in a vortex sucking them downward and can't figure a way out. My own wife has told me many times she would have loved to change, she knew she was wrong, but she just couldn't. That would make her bitter and even nastier to be around.
Sometimes they don't come out of it. For my W it was when I switched attitudes and filed for D. I was patient for almost 3 years. DB'd seriously for about a year. Spent the first two doing everything wrong. She still owned me and she knew it. It was when I finally said I'd rather be alone than with her and filed for D did mine snap out of it.
For others it might be when they find out an AP is really just trash (like they themselves are while they're cheating). You never know really. I consider myself "lucky". My sitch could have gone either way but the upside is at that time I didn't care which way. Life with or without her was going to be just fine for me. She realized, however, that life with me would be far better for her than life without me. That's another reason that BS's/LBS's have to become the best version of themselves they can possibly be. That's attractive. If the WS/WAS doesn't respond, others will.
Hi Tread, I'm sorry that I didn't catch your post asking me to drop by, sooner. I do believe disrespect is the main root in waywardness. There are other unattractive areas, such an incredible amount of selfishness......but for now, I'll try to reply to the question regrading the WW's disrespect for her H.
He may not be able to change her feelings of disrespect right away, but he can do something about her show of disrespectful behavior directed at him. I believe this is major when they live under the same roof. Well, actually anywhere......but when living together, there are so many ways she shows her lack of respect, and many H's have ignored it so long, that he tells himself it's no big deal. However, it is a big deal, and what is not stopped grows into more and more until it's a monster.
Let me give just a few examples of how this may have started pretty early in the MR. And, bear in mind that some of this blends into her manipulation and taking her H for granted. These are responses she directs toward him. Raising her voice; exhaling heavy sighs, rolling her eyes; standing with her hands on her hips; tapping her foot on the floor; leaving the room or moving from her position with a huff; (all ways that send a message to her H). All sorts of facial expressions to him or behind his back that says she is not pleased and is giving her mad, irritated, disrespectful, ugly face (too numerous to name). Verbally saying unkind things; calling him names; cursing; telling him off; making her H the butt of her "jokes" in front of others; making put-down statements about him or to him in front of the children and/or others; using the children as her messenger to "tell your daddy" something that relays an irritation or put-down......or to prevent speaking directly to him; saying his name angrily like, TREAD!!!........and that's all she has to do to let her H know she is reacting to something about him; yelling or screaming; giving him threats; throwing temper tantrums; slamming the phone down or disconnecting the call with him b/c she's angry; and using all sorts of manipulative and punitive behaviors when things don't go to suit her. As time marches on, her ways may become more volatile, like throwing things, pushing, hitting, entrapment, etc. It all stems from her lack of respect for him as a man.
If the H has the nice-guy syndrome, he is going to be passive and let most of her bad behavior slide. He tells himself all sort of excuses......such as....."It's not that big of a deal"; "Avoid a fight"; "Be the bigger person" (a personal pet peeve of mine); "It must be her hormones"; "It's not worth the hassle"; and many, many more things he uses to justify his passivity. The problem is that all those things she is doing to show her lack of respect.....is her way of testing him. At least, that is how it started in the relationship. By the time she is has an affair, or threatening to D, her show of disrespect could be to the degree of abusive.......and too late for her H to do much about it, expect separate himself from her. As for him ever restoring admiration and respect in her, he probably won't if she's been allowed to rule the roost with her abuse. I like to think it's never too late, but from what I have observed from some women's terrible actions directed at their H, it has gone on too long and she become overbearing, controlling, .......and she is abusing him. If he cannot stop it in a civilized manner, then there's not much hope for a good relationship, IMHO. If the problem is that the man is just a sorry excuse for a H, then he can change himself. However, abuse is never merited, and if this describes her behavior.......then he could become close to perfection, and it would not change the R.... b/c the problem is not the H, it's his abusive W.
Although, it is wonderful when the couple work as loving, supportive partners, but when this is not the case, someone has to be the head. There can be only one head of the home, and with that position comes much responsibility, much accountability, and therefore......must havźxe respect to have the order in the home it was designed to have. When there is a H in the home (and every home does not have a H), and if he is mentally and physically capable......he is the head. The MR will eventually fail if the W dishonors him. They may stay in the M, but the R will not be healthy. The key is that the W has to allow him to be the head. Did you know that? You can't lead anyone if they won't follow. My H is the head of our home b/c I let him. I don't always like it, but I respect it......and as long as I show that respect, it's good.
There seems to be an innate resistance for women to give their H that power or authority. Personally, I think it goes back to Eve, but I'll try not to go there. The W will test her H to see if she can usurp his position as head. Not that she will say so. Maybe some young women don't realize that's what they are doing.......but they know they are bucking against him. If she can prove that she can manipulate him, beat him down with her bad behavior, and he doesn't stand up to her..... then he's basically had it. You see, women want the H to be stronger than the W. Why would a woman marry a man who was weaker than her? If I'm going to give a man the headship of my family.......I'm going to test him sometimes to see if he has got what it takes. It's not like I sit down with myself and plan how and when I am going to do it. It just happens. More often, when something doesn't suit me about his actions, decisions, etc. Reacting with a negative response is really easy! Acting out in a rude, insensitive, obnoxious, unladylike behavior is not all that difficult for some. Know what I mean? Sulking, giving the cold sholder, and finally blowing up was usually my style. Bad behavior and disrespect just go hand in hand. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but when they start expressing it in disrespful attacks (directly or indirectly) it is bad behavior. When a W shows disrespectful behavior toward her H, she is challenging him.
Regardless of the degree in which she shows disrespect, it is still a challenge. When he does nothing, it has results similar to ignoring the school yard bully. She becomes worse, demonstrating her dislike, resentment, and disrespect for him, and challenging him as a man.
So, what's a H suppose to do? Actually, he can begin with what he might see as the smaller sizes of her disrespect demonstrated. For example, if she says something sarcastic to him at the family dinner table, he can either wait until the kids have left the room, or risk her getting the best of him in front of his kids. (It is critical that the children not witness their father being disrespected without him addressing it promptly.......and that corrected behavior follows. I suggest he talks to her in private and tell her not to repeat the behavior. And, he needs to think about what he will do, should she do it again. The same application goes for her showing disrespect toward him in public or around their friends, or anywhere else. To talk to her alone to point out how this is unacceptable and looks very unattractive, would be preferable. And then if she ignores what he says, he will need to address it in a way that is more successful. It would have taHi Tread, I'm sorry that I didn't catch your post asking me to drop by, sooner. I do believe disrespect is the main root in waywardness. There are other unattractive areas, such an incredible amount of selfishness......but for now, I'll try to reply to the question regrading the WW's disrespect for her H.
He may not be able to change her feelings of disrespect right away, but he can do something about her show of disrespectful behavior. I believe this is major when they live under the same roof. Well, actually anywhere......but when living together, there are so many ways she shows her lack of respect, and many H's have ignored it so long, that he tells himself it's no big deal. However, it is a big deal, and what is not stopped grows into more and more until it's a monster.
Let me give just a few examples of how this may have started pretty early in the MR. And, bear in mind that some of this blends into her manipulation and taking her H for granted. Raising her voice; exhaling heavy sighs, rolling her eyes; standing with her hands on her hips; tapping her foot on the floor; leaving the room or moving from her position with a huff; (all ways that send a message to her H). All sorts of facial expressions to him or behind his back that says she is not pleased and is giving her mad, irritated, disrespectful, ugly face (too numerous to name). Verbally saying unkind things; calling him names; cursing; telling him off; making her H the butt of her "jokes" in front of others; making put-down statements about him or to him in front of the children and/or others; using the children as her messenger to "tell your daddy" something that relays an irritation; saying his name angrily like, TREAD!!!........and that's all she has to do to let her H know she is reacting to something about him; yelling or screaming; giving him threats; throwing temper tantrums; slamming the phone down or disconnecting the call with him b/c she's angry; and using all sorts of manipulative and punitive behaviors when things don't go to suit her. As time marches on, her ways may become more volatile, like throwing things, pushing, hitting, etc. It all stems from her lack of respect for him as a man and as her H.
If the H has the nice-guy syndrome, he is going to be passive and let it slide. He tells himself all sort of excuses......such as....."It's not that big of a deal"; "Avoid a fight"; "Be the bigger person" (a personal pet peeve of mine); "It must be her hormones"; "It's not worth the hassel"; and many, many more things he uses to justify his passivity. The problem is that all those things she is doing to show her lack of respect.....is her way of testing him.
Traditionally, the H is the head of the home. He is the leader. He is the president, and she's the vice president. As the head, he has tremendous responsibilities. Up until the past three or four decades, the H was held responsible for his W's credit, and her name alone on any financial contract wasn't worth much without the H's name, too. The single woman had a difficult time, simply b/c they had no H to take responsibility for her. She couldn't even get paid what a man was paid, b/c the employer saw the man supporting a family......but not her. The traditional wedding vows were even different for the W, b/c she vowed to obey her H, while he vowed to cherish her. Imagine! But that's the way it was when I was growing up, and it may be today in some countries. Anyway, I didn't mean to get into all of that. I was trying to make a point, and got sidetracked.
The point is, only one can be the head of the home, and with that position comes much responsibility, much accountability, and therefore......must have respect in order it was designed to have. When there is a H in the home (and every home does not have a H), and if he is mentally and physically capable......he is the head. The MR will eventually fail if the W dishonors his position as the head. They may stay in the M, but the R will not be healthy. The key is that the W has to allow him to be the head. Did you know that? You can't lead anyone if they won't follow. My H is the head of our home b/c I let him.
There seems to be an innate resistance for women to give their H that power or authority. I just know the W will test her H to see if she can usurp his position as head. Not that she will say so. Maybe some young women don't realize that's what they are doing.......but they know they are bucking against him. If she can prove that she can manipulate him, beat him down with her bad behavior, and he doesn't stand up to her..... then he's basically had it. You see, we want the H to be stronger than the W. Why would a woman marry a man who was weaker than her? If I'm going to give a man the headship of my family.......I'm going to test him sometimes to see if he has got what it takes. It's not like I sit down with myself and plan how and when I am going to do it. It just happens. More often, when something doesn't suit me about his actions, decisions, etc. Reacting with a negative response is really easy! Acting out in a rude, insensitive, obnoxious, unladylike behavior is not all that difficult. Know what I mean? Sulking, giving the cold sholder, and finally blowing up was usually my style. Bad behavior and disrespect just go hand in hand. Everyone is entitled to their feelings, but when they start expressing it in disrespful attacks (directly or indirectly) it is bad behavior. When a W shows disrespectful behavior toward her H, she is challenging him.
Regardless of the degree in which she shows disrespect, it is still a challenge. When he does nothing, it has results similar to ignoring the school yard bully. She becomes worse, demonstrating her dislike, resentment, and disrespect for him, and challenging him as a man.
So, what's a H suppose to do? Actually, he can begin with what he might see as the smaller sizes of her disrespect demonstrated. For example, if she says something sarcastic to him at the family dinner table, he can either wait until the kids have left the room, or risk her getting the best of him in front of his kids. (It is critical that the children not witness their father being disrespected without him addressing it promptly.......and that corrected behavior follows. I suggest he talks to her in private and tell her not to repeat the behavior. And, he needs to think about what he will do, should she do it again. The same application goes for her showing disrespect toward him in public or around their friends, or anywhere else. To talk to her alone to point out how this is unacceptable and looks very unattractive, would be preferable. And then if she ignores what he says, he will need to address it in a way that is more successful. It would have taken only one time for my H to have "put me my place" so to speak, and I would never have embarrassed him with any type of disrespectful behavior in front of others. I don't remember doing much of anything in front of others, but my attitude probably showed, and I did show my aggravation in front of family members a few times. The minute I saw one of them quickly look at him.....I knew I was out of line. But he never said a word to me, in private or otherwise. He should have!
When a man has a W who has gone so over-the-line in how she talks to him in front of their children........it will take a wise man with a strong constitution to command proper, respectful behavior in his home again. She can feel whatever she wants, but she should not be allowed to overtly express such disrespect for him. An additional problem of disrespectful behavior will come from his children. They have a poor role model in their wayward mother, and watching her show disrespect for their father.....will plant the seeds of rebellion in their own hearts. The father will have no control over his household. The wife and the children will be living wayward, rebellious lives.
If she has shown disrespful ways toward her H since the wedding day, a lot has become habitual. It will not end, unless he stops taking it. Every time she does something that expresses unattractive behavior, if he does nothing......then he is accepting it. The one thing I would say that WW's hate in their H's is passivity. It is destructive to the MR. It affects the attraction and her female response in the bedroom, and that's why a lot of M's are SSM's. She has lost admiration for him, and it's MHO that it does affect her desire. I mean, who wants to have sex with a man you don't desire and don't respect? She'll just find time with her vibrator, instead.
It would have taken only one time for my H to have "put me my place" so to speak, and I would never have embarrassed him with any type of disrespectful behavior in front of others. I don't remember doing much of anything in front of others, but my attitude probably showed, and I did show my aggravation in front of family members a few times. The minute I saw one of them quickly look at him.....I knew I was out of line. But he never said a word to me, in private or otherwise. He should have!
When a man has a W who has gone so far over-the-line in how she talks to him in front of their children........it will take a wise man with a strong constitution to command proper, respectful behavior in his home again. She can feel whatever she wants, but she should not be allowed to overtly express such disrespect toward him. An additional problem of disrespectful behavior will come from his children. They have a poor role model in their wayward mother, and watching her show disrespect for their father.....will plant the seeds of rebellion in their own hearts. The father will have no control over his household. The wife and the children will be living wayward, rebellious lives.
If she has shown disrespful ways toward her H since the wedding day, a lot has become habitual. It will not end, unless he stops taking it. Every time she does something that expresses unattractive behavior, and if he does nothing......then he is accepting it.....and it makes her act worse toward him. Some W's become abusive. The more passive and nice-guy ways her H displays, the more disgust she will demonstrate. We see a lot of this when the H is afraid of losing his W. He fears standing up for himself, and his self-esteem shrinks to barely existing. Every time I have seen a man stand up for himself, he would state how great it made him feel. Although the W probably won't ever tell him.......she will respect him! And if he will consistently hold her feet to fire about showing respectful actions, it will be the one biggest factor in repairing their MR.
The one thing I would say that WW's hate in their H's is passivity. It is destructive to the MR. It affects the attraction and her female response in the bedroom, and that's why a lot of M's are SSM's. She has lost admiration for him, and it's MHO that it does affect her desire. I mean, who wants to have sex with a man you don't desire and don't respect? She'll just find time with her vibrator, instead.
Don't be that guy that allows his W to speak badly to him, or make faces or posters her body as if she were you mother. Don't take cursing, phone slamming, etc
Is there anything you want to ask about a particular issue your W is doing and you aren't sure how to handle it?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
I don't always like it, but I respect it......and as long as I show that respect, it's good.