On Higher Ground

[Gordie]

Hawho,

The answer is within you.

The game that goes on and on? Yes, but it can end when you want.

Losing hand? No, I think you are the one with all your cards.

A different thought:

Instead of thinking of this as a giant game, which drives me insane, I think about each day as a finite one. I choose to play the game today and today only.

Gordie

[WillDo]

You are an inspiration. You sill find the answers. Only thing I can say is when you are really down try citing what you are phsyically doing. I am standing up in the kitchen looking at the fridge. I am nos going to open the fridge. This method helps me to calm now. Your brain gets recharged because thinking really takes lots of energy away. Don't you feel exhausted when you arguewith people? The brain activity.

[job]

HaWho,

You may think you have the losing hand, but truly, you hold the cards to your own happiness. The answers are within you, but you need to step away from your situation to actually think about what you want. Yes, you are there, living w/a hermit day in and day out. Maybe it's time for you to take a little solo vacation, to actually be able to see the light that shines behind the clouds.

The answers will come...

[mleigh4]

HW, you have known me and my situation for a long time. You know I struggled for so long trying to find the answers. I would get so frustrated, where are these dang answers!? Lol

I just want to chime in to say, they will come, and you will know when they do. It's an amazing freeing feeling, the doubts and worries disappear, and it all feels right. Until they do, keep moving forward, stay patient, patience is key. Keep the focus on you and your boys and allow yourself the time to yourself. I have no doubt you will be just fine no matter what happens.

Big hugs!
M

[HaWho]

Thanks all.

Andrew - hmm, I don't see myself as a person who gave up long ago. As for why I am here, I do believe people can have bad years and in the end that time (painful as it is) can be a blip. I know something is wrong with him. And lastly, he stood for years through my depression and he tried very hard to help. Situations are complicated.

If we didn't have kids I think I would still stand. But I think that would be moot. I think sans children he'd be a vanisher. The only thing that keeps him here is that his dad walked off and he knows that pain, intimately. He vowed he'd never do that to his kids.

Roist, Gordie, WillDo and Job, thanks. Job, I know you are right. The future is mine to build. And speaking of which, hi Mleigh! The support is appreciated.

Well, the brat is out in full force. The behavior is similar to preBD and how he was acting 1 1/2 - 2 years ago. Basically, since I questioned the finances he's been trying to gaslight me. Unfortunately, we see each other so little, there just aren't that many opportunities. He sent me a nasty text hours after that conversation on Father's Day telling me we wouldn't be discussing finances again. And the reason is that I asked him how much he is spending per month and he played dumb. I told him there was too much money going out the door. He tried to show me it was all legit but when he ran through some numbers, he soon saw that yep, the only unknown is his spending. I know my spending, the expenses and the money that is coming in, so it's easy to see his amount.

Since then he's been gunning for a fight. There's nothing to fight about. We are cordial and I stay out of his way.

S11 hurt his knee and couldn't go to camp for a few days. H asked s if he was going. The day before s11 had told me he was nervous to tell h his knee still hurt because maybe his dad would be dispappointed in him. Guess it's that male machismo thing. I reassured s that h would not be and that he wanted him to heal.

So I said I think s won't go because s seemed hesitant to say it. H asked why s didn't say so sooner. And I opened my big mouth and said he was worried h would be upset with him. And with that h had his fight. He said we were trying to make him out to be a villain and some kind of camp tyrant. I started to explain that s was scared to disappoint him but h huffed off before I could. And with that he had his reason for a snit.

And in that snit he's been. He has been ignoring me since Thursday. I sent him a text about the kids and he ignored me. I thought maybe he was busy. He sent me an email but it was to a group of people so maybe I was accidentally included? Not sure. I was polite and answered. He did not respond. I said goodbye and hello when I came in on Thursday and he ignored me so I stopped trying. Friday he ignored me, too.

So this morning I woke up early. He was already in his creepy corner. I said nothing and neither did he. So stupid. I took a long walk and when I returned he was in the dorm room. He left and asked the kids if they wanted to come. He knows they'll say no. But he looks good trying. And off he went for the whole day just like full on replay.

The good news? I didn't pay it any attention. I had a productive day. I ran errands for s11, dropped s13 off at a friend's, cleaned the house, walked the dog, listened to music and danced w the dog. (He loves to dance!). He returned at dinner time. I am looking forward to seeing if he runs around tonight just like he used to do; maybe he is going back to his old schedule MLC schedule? Hah!

I know he wanted to have an excuse to explode. I do think that maybe he's gunning for a reason to move out. I think he'd love to say "your mom is too disrespectful to me for me to live here any longer." I think he may be trying to line up a reason to be the victim and yet standing up for himself at the same time.

S's knee is better and I had a great day. It's nice to have a long weekend to catch up on housework and errands. It's a gorgeous day here!

[bttrfly]

Hi HaWho.

Have you thought at all about a weekend get away for yourself?

Love,
B. xoxoxox

[Brubeck]

Hi HaWho,

I wanted to comment on your recent "calm" conversation with H. I don't have a great deal to add as job has summed things up wonderfully.

Both of our S's are live-in MLCers. You've been at it far longer than I have, and my W is in far worse shape than your H...so there are significant differences. Nonetheless, you can see the minute details of the train wreck unfolding on an almost daily basis in your home. You're searching for progress because you see so much little bits of wackiness.

What I heard from your summation of that conversation is that he remains in the tunnel and is leaving the heavy lifting up to you. He expects you to file or end the R by starting to see someone else. That he mentions moving out is possibly him projecting that he wants to. Obviously, he doesn't want to leave your kids - but he's in martyr mode, and will do so if properly pushed by you.

I don't want to mind read here, but since the conversation was "calm" he seems resigned to where he is. His MLC dorm room depression has become his new routine, and he feels safe there. You have done so much of the re-adjusting, why push himself any further, if at all? He's still stuck, and content to stay there. Perhaps he sees no need to change things. I agree that he's probably further along in the tunnel, but he's still fogged out enough to accept this craziness as his life.

You posted a while back on someone else's thread something I haven't forgotten; to the MLCer - EVERYTHING = PRESSURE. I see this all the time with my W. Perhaps your H wants to move out but can't bear the idea of the new responsibilities that accompany "freedom" and "independence". I don't know how dependent your H is on you to handle every day necessities.

Unrelated to your H's MLC, I have a question for you - how do you feel about your battle with depression? What do you NOW see as the pros and cons of that?

[HaWho]

Bttrfly - sorry I forgot to answer. I do plan on taking time away. I am going to take a personal day and just head out of here and not return until late. I may stay away for the night.

Brubeck - my depression was complicated in that it's hard for me still to see what exactly happened. Time is fuzzy and I have a tough time putting the chronologies together. I now know my h went into MLC before my depression.

Anyway, the cons are I lost that time. I don't remember those years well. We went away one summer and the kids talk about this part and that part and I don't remember anything but one morning of it. Those years are a big blank. And I withdrew from my kids. My h was irritable all the time and everything I did was wrong. He was critical of me 24/7. I don't think this was all due to my depression. He was heading toward BD on the bullet train.

As for the pros, well, there are many. I learned a lot about worrying; that it gets you absolutely no where. I learned to compartmentalize better. It was the beginning of me training myself to give x thought 15 minutes and then get out of my head space. This would only be reinforced 1 year post BD.

The biggest pro is that I recognize a lot of the behaviors I see in my h. It's jogged my memory and helped me realize his depression, though it affects my life greatly, is not personal.

I withdrew and wanted to be by myself. I didn't make eye contact. I left rooms when he walked in. He would call and I just wanted to get off the phone. I was always tired and had difficulty completing simple tasks. I was achy and always felt sick and yet I know I wasn't. I was not afraid of aging and did not have replay. It was not MLC. I was grieving over my nephew being diagnosed with a severe, rare genetic disorder.

Anyway, I don't remember all that I did. So when the MLCer says he/she doesn't remember doing x and y, believe it.

As for me, I am coming to terms with the fact that I don't need to suffer as much as I am suffering through this. For me, I just need to really give this over to God. I need to let go of this. It's so above my pay grade.

Lately, there is very little interaction between us. He avoids me. An example? I came home from work and they were watching a game. I politely asked s13 to clean up his dishes from the AM and h left the room. I am sure he thinks I am a nag.

This week he posted a sign detailing his new life diet. It has 10 foods total on it. It is the exact same list he posted prior to BD. It's impossible to live life just eating those 10 restrictive things. Guess he hasn't learned that yet.

[mleigh4]

I think a day away is a great idea for you! I know in the past you have always greatly enjoyed it.

I don't know what to say about your H. I read your posts and find so much of his behavior unbearable, and you continue to move along which continues to amaze me. I think the best part is that you don't take it personal.

Are the boys enjoying their summer? Have you done any beach days like you did last year? Enjoy yourself HW and leave your H to mope his time away. Nothing you can do will change that anyway, his battle to fight.

Big ((hugs))
M

[roist]

hawho,

I have a question about the period that you were depress. How did you see the role of your H in regards to improving things? I am asking how your depressed self wanted H to act. During mine I wanted things to improvebbut was clueless and incapable of doing anything to improve things. I remember being disappointed that W did not do more to help me/us. That enhanced my feeling alone and hence my depression. My question is just out of curiosity to see if you felt similarly.

I don't think I expected W to magically fix everything/us but I did want her to try. Afterwards she said she had tried a lot, without effect. Looking back I can now see some efforts she made that I didn't see at the time. They were weak and not ideal but they took place. One thing I cannot ignore is that she stayed. That is an undisputed fact.

Having gone through depression I know how helpless it feels, I understand the inability to act/improve and I am aware that whilst depressed a person is not themselves. This does not excuse everything but helps accept the situation.

We got through our depressions. Our spouses are now going through something similar. Our experience can only help us. Plus if we can do it, why can't our spouses? Trust me I know this feels endless but it will end. Maybe our spouses will remain stuck longer than we decide to stand. It is a possibility but so too it is possible they come out of it before that. Either way time will tell. For now we can only live the best that we can

Best wishes