I was thinking about why would someone owe anything to anyone else or what would be a good reason to owe someone.
I was just her husband the one she made vows too. I was the one she started a life with and wanted to have kids with. I was the one she said she loved more than anyone else.
I have ignored her text a few of her text messages now for just two days. Lets just see exactly how important I was to her and how much she really loved me. How much effort will she put into wanting to talk to me?
You are off the charts angry about her not calling when she said she would. That stems from expectations. First, she not only was able to see you, which mad her not calling when she said she would which makes her so disrespectful, not caring about your M, and all the other things you mentioned. Because you have all these expectations about when and how she should be answering you.
First of all what you think is off the charts angry is far from the truth. Yes I am irked with her, but not I'm not even close to the kind of angry you speak of. If I was I would be actually texting her back and I wouldn't have anything nice to say at all. Forgive me for thinking someone would do something as simple as to actually call me when she said she would, it's a ridiculously easy thing to do. I do have expectations of people in general and treating someone with a small amount of respect is one of them. Thinking that my wife would have a small amount of respect for me is an expectation, but it's the kind of expectations you are thinking I had of the situation. I didn't and I still have no expectations of my wife ever getting back with me or wanting to meet. I think if I am important to her at all and she really wants to say something to me then nothing will stop her from doing it. Nothing stopped me from going to see my wife, even though I was pretty sure she wouldn't see me, because she is important enough to me.
What did she mean by "not that you would care?" She was giving you a reason why she couldn't see you. Because you snuck in on her and she wasn't there. She is saying you wouldn't care what her reason is, not that you don't care about her.
Is she asking for closure now? I don't think she is. She does want to talk, but if you feel she missed the boat and its not going the way you want it to, don't do it.
Her text messages, the fact that I have divorce papers on my kitchen counter, she never wants to come back to where I live, ignoring everyone that was a part of me and how cold she is to me makes me think otherwise. If she doesn't want closure then what pray tell does she want? This seems like such a game. If she doesn't want closure or a divorce then why would she continue on the way she is completely beyond my understanding. Maybe I am just looking at this to realistically and from a mans perspective, although she has always claimed to be very practical.
But really, I think she froze when it came to talking to you. She was processing your surprise trip and was probably scared.
Scared......scared of what? It didn't scare her to sign the divorce papers, so why be scared to call me and just say it's over and there is nothing to be done about it? Shoot why not just text me like she did when she told me she was sending the divorce papers. She could of cleared her conscious by starting it out the same way and saying "I'm sorry to do it this way". I mean once she has gone to the lengths she has what the hell is there to be scared off, what the hell has she got to lose? These are questions that are so confusing to me.
First, is this a letter you want to send now? Because I'm not sure I would...but I know waiting a few days won't matter - so I suggest you hold off for now.
Second, some of the things you posted here are things I missed in your threads or you didn't mention earlier and they matter.
If you are of different races, a LOT of families have subconscious or overt problems with that. The issues may be invisible to the naked eye, but might be simply dormant , and will come out when marital issues rise. That is relevant.
Also, the political differences - as superficial as they may be to me/you and many others, they are managed different recently.
Added to the racial difference - if I'm understanding you correctly, feeds into a lot of people's perceptions at this time.
I would strongly suggest saying nothing that disagrees with them, other than when specifically asked. Then you stress what you do agree on (i.e. safety net for the disabled, and things that all sides agree on).
You will not persuade anyone otherwise. I get the sense that you really do believe your views are better thought out than theirs and that you feel the need to make points, not knowing that you're getting nowhere fast. But imo, There is No political issue worth falling on your sword for, with inlaws.
I've consumed many cups of STFU when my inlaws said things I totally disagreed with or found offensive, over the past 37+years. The good news is they stopped asking my opinion and we all mellowed over time.
Next - And her own mother did this to her dad? That's fascinating to me. Not in a good way, but in a "Sure Wish I'd known before" way.
It's probably incredibly relevant, Cali. These ^^ are the types of details that would have helped to know earlier, tbh.
If you didn't mention this^^^ before, that's baffling to me. Do you see how that specific information matters?
Anyhow, the last form of communication I'd choose if I were you, is texting. It's the most likely to be misinterpreted and once it's written, it can be forwarded to anyone.
And you said above in an above post that you were "not angry" she didn't make time for you in Virginia.
That's patently false.
You even admit it was disrespectful and cowardly of her, in your later posts. It would also be weird if you did not feel disappointed. (As if seeing your wife didn't matter when it was THE reason you went out there).
and yes I know you got divorce papers the day before. I just linked them in terms of when she sent them/you made travel plans.
Cali, there is some cognitive dissonance in your posts and you need to know it's okay to be confused. It's normal to have conflicting emotions now.
What's of concern to me is how insistent you are that all is fine and you'll come out on top and this doesn't hurt...when of course it does.
In any case, she is sending mixed signals, I agree. But the loudest & clearest signal was the divorce filing.
Take your time responding. Silence is a response. And you can speak later, but you cannot retract.
((( )))
I absolutely have mentioned the things above before and this is why I think things aren't getting through. The emotions I feel are being mad at how she is treating me let alone anyone else. That is the only emotion I have. I have said before I am either mad or happy and I am seldom mad. You are absolutely correct when I say I am confused with her actions and it's not like this something that suddenly popped up with her. I have had to deal with crap like this before.
Believe me when I have never discussed political things with my inlaws directly. They were mad at my wife for having agreed with me though and that is a fact. What difference does a letter make now? This is an honest question. I don't get it? As much as you guys think Im super emotional or off the charts angry it isn't the truth. If I was any of those things I wouldn't be acting the way I am. I wouldn't have the control over having silence towards my wife for one. I have chose every time to not respond to her because I am not sure what to say other than to give her an ear full of everything I think is utter crap.
Cali - please know that I support you and would love for your marriage to work out.
That being said, you are an impossible dude to get through to. Every single response from you is a retort about how wrong we are all about you. Granted, none of us know you personally. However, just reading your responses boggles my mind.
You claim you don't need your W, you can move on, you have no expectations, you aren't mad, you aren't pressuring. Dude, I see just the opposite (I'm sure you will tell me how wrong I am).
Let me ask you a question... why are you here? Please know that I am not attacking you. I would really like for you to be able to honest with yourself. Maybe, just maybe, your W feels like I do (that you are never wrong and will fight to the grave to prove everyone else wrong).
I think it's safe to assume that your W doesn't think like you do. Does that make her wrong?
Did you read her last text messages to me after I got to Hawaii? It doesn't seem like there is much care from her about things at all. She wants nothing else then to divorce and to forget about a life she once started with me, so why oh why does she insist on doing what she is doing.
Are you asking why she's pursuing divorce? Well let's go back to your very first post:
Quote:
She has been very depressed for a long time being away from family and friends and finding it really hard to land a job where we live in the field she went to college for. I travel %100 for work and she would often call me crying about how lonely she was and how much she missed me. I would tell her I had to work to pay the bills, especially since I was the only one making any money.
Quote:
When we first met the sex life was awesome, but after we got married it suffered a great deal mainly on my part in worrying about her.
Quote:
We didn't always communicate the best, but I figured that was pretty normal as couples go and newly married. It was a learning process which we were both working on. She felt it was an issue at times, but I didn't feel it was as big of a deal. She mentioned that I would sometimes go 10 hours or more without taking to her. I’m my defense I was working and a lot of them times unable to text and when I got off work I had little time to do things for myself like go to the gym and eat, so I would neglect her in that respect, but not a lot. Although I would say she felt it was a lot. Her love language is quality time, which I know suffered with my job, and the words of affirmation were high on her list too. I personally had to work on that one, but I always told her I loved her.
Quote:
She missed her family a great deal and always wanted to spend a couple holidays there, but I turned it down often because of financially it wasn't the best option for us. I know now I should have made it more of a priority. In March she really wanted to go home for her birthday and surprise her parents, but I wouldn't commit to it because I was unsure of my work schedule and also wanting to save money, so she ended up going by herself.
Quote:
Then about a week before I was ready to come home she calls me and tells me she is going to leave and go back home to her parents. She said she was very unhappy and felt she lost herself, not sure who she was anymore and needed to find herself again. She said she also really missed her family and friends and could cry any more over it and wanted to be back home with her parents. She said she had been crying herself to sleep every night for the last two weeks, which I was unaware of.
Now I'm not assigning blame here, but it sounds like your W was absolutely miserable. The sex was bad, communication was bad, her friends and family were a country away and her H was never there to support her emotionally, sometimes going a full 10 hours with no communication at all. She spiraled into depression. She was so desperate to save herself that she left her marriage and went home, a move that was no doubt embarrassing to her. No adult wants to move back home with their parents after they've established a life outside of that. This to her was probably her last resort. You admit she tried communicating these things to you and you just dismissed it as being a normal part of married life. But it is NOT normal. What she was going through was traumatic, and she needed out.
Now, in reading your posts you have never really stated what you are offering her that is different than before. I get the impression you just want her to move back to Cali with you and resume the same old life that drove her to the point of misery. That's not an option. If you're so desperate to save the M, what are you offering her that is substantially different than before, that will solve all of those issues she had in the M?
Originally Posted By: Cali08
I don't know what I want to do? I have been clear from the beginning that I want our marriage to work
But you have not been clear about what that means. HOW are you going to make it work? Because returning to the status quo is not the answer. How are you going to address her depression and anxiety, and feelings of inadequacy?
Quote:
What could she actually have to say to me that will matter at all?
There seems to be a lot of this kind of attitude in your posts, you're dismissing her feelings and emotions without ever even hearing what they are. The answer to your question is literally ANYTHING she tells you would matter, if you choose to listen.
Quote:
I feel she is disrespecting more now then she has this entire time and I will not be walked on like that.
I don't think she's being disrespectful at all. She's scared, worried and doesn't know what to do. She doesn't want to go back to your old married life, but she hasn't really gotten any reassurances from you that staying married would be any different. She feels painted into a corner, like D is the only way out.
Quote:
So tear this way of thinking apart so I can understand if I am going about this all wrong.
Well, I think you're still looking at it from the point of view of what YOU want instead of trying to understand what SHE wants. You really need to seek and understand what she wants and evaluate whether that's possible for you or not. IE, she may not even want to leave her home town at this point, so staying together may mean some huge life changes for you that you may or may not be willing to accept. If you want to save your M then get started rewriting that letter to tell her you want to know what SHE thinks a future, perfect M with you would look like. Don't just send her a letter saying you love her and want to stay married and think she's pretty, that addresses NONE of the issues she has with the M.
this post from Another is worth reading THREE times. I worry you will React and take his post line by line and try to rebut it. But he's quoting you. So take it in.
Take it in...breathe, and give it real thought. Try not to react to it at all for awhile.
He took a lot of his own time to post to you, not to make you wrong, but to help support you on this journey.
We know it $ucks. We have all been there in some form.
We are rooting for you.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I really wish you could understand the kind of person I am and how I deal with things, it would be such a great thing. I get it. I give you the only info you all have on me, although not everything I say is read it seems. This isn't anything I am faulting anyone because it very likely can be the way I bring it across when I write. The way I write can also be a very bad representation of who I really am. I'm not trying to argue with anyone or think anyone is so wrong to say what you do. When I feel that there is not a clear understanding then I say something, but that always seems to come across as I do nothing but defend myself and I am never wrong.
OK, so I will fill you guys all in on what I just went through with my wife. I was working out in the gym at about 8:30 pm my time here in Hawaii so it's a 6 hours difference in Virginia, which means it was about 2:30 am her time. I start getting text messages from her. Here it is.
W: I wrote you something W: Will you read it W: Will you say something W: Anything W: I'm probably asking to much W: You're hating me W: Looking at you're phone wondering why I'm even bothering W: Wishing I would stop texting you W: Yet, you won't even dignify me with a responce. Guess you feel I've earned this. W: That i deserve it. Two stubborn people make fires....What can put the blaze out? W ......
I decided to respond.
ME: Hi ME: Can you give me some time
W: Yes W: Can we talk W: For 5 minutes? W: That's all I ask
ME: It's really late there......
W: I'm wide awake
ME: I'm at the gym with co-worker and we just got here ME: We came together is all and he is training with me. ME: Can you give me 30 min to finish with him. I have a 15 min walk back to the hotel too. Otherwise......
W: OK, enjoy training. W: I'm going to read W: I'm still up but if I fall asleep I'll call you tomorrow W: Reading can be pretty relaxing.
After some thinking while working out I responded to her on my walk back to the hotel.
ME: I got to be honest I'm not quite sure how I feel about this......
W: Talking to me? W: OK W: So....we don't talk at all? Not sure what you mean?
ME: Well I have had a lot to say for a long time......and I'm talking to you right now......I just don't understand any of this.
W: I see. I haven't been sure what to say. W: I don't know what to do now either. W: And I didn't know if I should leave you alone or not. I don't know....I've been thinking about flying to see you. Don't have the money. Had to put my car in the shop. It's been there a few days.
ME: I'm listening, it confuses me though.....
W: Are you done training?
I let her know after I got back to my hotel, but I wasn't really sure I even wanted to talk to her because I didn't know what good could come of it anymore. Anyway is getting really tired yeah its after 3 am there now, but she does call and right away I might add. I just say hello and stay quite. It's her turn to start and play the part I have been for so long.
She tells me she has been thinking a lot about things lately and thought about coming back, but wasn't sure if I would even talk to her for a long time or not, because in the past I have just been quite when I was upset with her. I'm sure as all you woman know, that the silent treatment is torture to you all, but men love it when done to them. HAHA! (Just a little joke) Anyway, I said a little here, but not much. She goes on to tell me that she wish I would have told her I was coming to Virginia because she would have made arrangement to see me, but without her car it wasn't something she could do. I just said I don't know what to say about that other than I did what I did and I came to see her, that is just how it was. She continues to tell me that she knows she is at fault for a lot of things and that she never thought I was going to hurt her or wanted to. She said that she doesn't thinking badly of me and has never stopped caring about me. She kind of contradicted some of the things she said about me to my buddies wife and to me. Long story short we talked about 40 min or so and it turned from relationship talk to just regular talk about things that happened, basically talking like we used to.
She was falling asleep and told me to enjoy my dinner and she would talk to me later. I have no idea what that means or if it means anything at all because it was a relatively short talk about us. I have no expectation of her even calling or talking to me tomorrow what so ever and the ball is in her court I suppose. Tomorrow I will go to work and hit the gum after and then enjoy Hawaii and I will continue to do that rather she calls or not.
One thing this has told me is that my going to Virginia, which was in my opinion, doing the exact opposite of what I was doing and it being a 180 that I may have been on the right track with that. When talking to her about it now it sounded like it was a good thing from her view and not something that scared her. I think what scared her is that I was finally giving up on her.
Further more she talked about future things with me. About jobs I should look for and how good I am at coaching and that I should make it a full time job. It' was by far the most normal conversation I have had with her in months since this thing started.
Last edited by Cadet; 07/10/1712:32 AM. Reason: Combine posts
In the nicest way possible, there is a very arrogant/defensive tone to pretty much all of your messages.
If all of us trying to help you on here can pick up on it, then I am sure your wife picks up on it also. You even mention your family and other people are advising her to get out.
Even though she is your wife, she owes you nothing, and she wants out for a reason. Because she is unhappy.
If you are so convinced that nothing bothers you and life moves on etc.. then why are you here? Its like your inner self wants help, but the way you defend yourself so strongly suggests you probably need to be a bit more honest with yourself.
It hurts.. we get it, but if you carry on as you are then I highly doubt this is going to end in a favorable situation for you both.
Forgive me for thinking someone would do something as simple as to actually call me when she said she would, it's a ridiculously easy thing to do. I do have expectations of people in general and treating someone with a small amount of respect is one of them.
Ive generally stopped posting to you, as most of the time I agreed with the advice you were already getting.
I did read this and thought it interesting that several pages back you had told W that you were going to write her a letter explaining something and never did. I understand why you didnt, and frankly, I think writing a letter would have done more harm than good. My point is more that you seem to take a lot of offense to this act when you kinda did the same thing not that long ago.
Originally Posted By: Cali08
These are questions that are so confusing to me.
As for this, one thing I can say from having spent some time around here reading probably hundreds of different situations is that any individual action by the WAS is incredibly difficult to interpret. There are so many possible reasons and motivations behind any individual action that it makes analyzing that single one incredibly difficult to get right. Why didnt she call that one time? Who knows - anything we say is just a guess.
Instead, I think it's better to look at trends. Like you said in a different post, "I think what scared her is that I was finally giving up on her." I think that this is an excellent insight. By being dark, it gave her the sense of what her life would be without you, and I think you can start to see the cracks.
