WW with affair moved out 4+ weeks ago

[KGuy]

Hello 15Stang, thought i'd comment and bump this post up for you for comment by others. I know you were looking for Sandi2 in your other thread, but maybe it can be consolidated here.

Jeremiah 29:11New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

11 For I know well the plans I have in mind for you—oracle of the Lord—plans for your welfare and not for woe, so as to give you a future of hope.

Just take it one day at a time...

This scripture quote really helped me, thanks for posting SBJ

Hi all,
I went to a divorce care meeting last tuesday. Mainly I wanted to get out and meet some new people in a safe environment. While I'm not divorced yet it does seem like it is only a matter of time. The group was about 6 people of which I was the only male.

I also went to a DivorceCare class and although it started out where there were three guys in the class (class started with about 20 or so but ended up with about 6), i ended up being the only one that stuck it through. The thing that annoyed me was that although the video promoted what i believed (honor your vows and they were Christian based), the class would deviate. Although there were some in there who were going through the same thing you are, more often that not, the women in there were ending it because they thought they were being controlled. When they started to talk, i had the same doubt as you "am i controlling". I spoke up at first, but then it seemed i dominated the conversation too much (we only had 15 minutes for discussion), so after a couple of times, i just (mostly) kept my mouth shut and let them believe what they want to believe. Most times, the women would say they felt emotionally abused, but in he end, when i asked a simple question, they didn't speak up and communicate to their H sometimes for years that something bothered them. That was disturbing to me as my W does the same thing. At the end of the day, i would think anything in a marriage has to come from agreement and compromise.
It was really hard for me when the instructor would conflict the video saying that it was "christian based, but we don't want to alienate anyone so take it with a grain of salt".

The other thing i liked from that class was that they had a rule of not dating. My main focus on the class was support, but it really wasn't too supportive of my situation i don't think.

1. I can be a dominant person in communication. I'm only a few inches taller than my wife and about 50 pounds heavier. I wouldn't say I'm able to intimate her physically. However I do communicate easily and on the fly. This would create some conversations where she felt like her opinion didn't matter or that she couldn't have a voice. I feel terrible about this as I never meant to make her feel that way. I actually wanted her to speak up more and talk but I didn't understand I was making it so difficult for her.
2. We argued about $$ a lot. Especially early on in our marriage. We both liked to spend money. While I can't speak for her I spent $$ to make myself feel better. I believe this was her reasoning as well. When we married we were in about $25,000 of credit card debt. We payed it all off. However this was a fight as I was the one that took steps to pay it off while she fought me about not being able to buy whatever she wanted. We had to change our habits to pay off debt instead of satisfy our desires. $15,000 was my debt and $10,000 was hers when we married. Throughout our marriage we would argue about money usually because we didn't like to be told we couldn't buy something. The problem is we didn't learn that credit is bad and to live within your means until later in marriage. After some of her reasoning for leaving I'm not sure if she did learn to live within her means. I've been made to feel like I'm some financial tyrant. When our divorce is final she will get quite a bit of money from me and our marriage. Her AP- Well he is so far in debt he plans to file bankruptcy.
3. Would I be controlling because I would voice my needs in the marriage? Example- I had been asking her to show me through her actions that she was taking responsibility for her own healing after the affair. It could be reading a book, counseling, group meeting, etc. It didn't matter what it was. What mattered is that she was doing something on her own without me leading. The first 6-12 months of counseling were because I was leading reconciliation. (looking back this should have been a huge red flag/2x4 to my noggin) My reasoning is this was a way for her to communicate through her actions that she wanted to be a safe place for me. Usually she'd start something for a few weeks and then it would stop. This was frustrating for me. If I confronted her and asked why she stopped I would be viewed as controlling. Is this controlling behavior?

1. I do the same thing as you and when my W brought it up to me, i told her i sound like I'm arguing, but i really asking you to convince me to change my position. She said it was a struggle for her to do that and she just didn't want to do that. I tried to accommodate her more, but in the end if i don't agree with her position, i wouldn't just roll over for her. I think she resented that.
2. We didn't argue as much about money as i thought, but my W would bring something up, i'd agree to help her with it, but then she would remind me or give me any details for me to help her with. In the end she resented this and again labelled me with the controlling tag. My focus was paying down debt and thats where most of the money i earned that didn't go to our joint bills went to. I go allot knocked out (and will continue to even more now that she is gone), but that a whole different post.
3. Sorry, I think you were controlling here. She has to want to improve herself. You can't do that for her and treat her like a kid who hasn't done her homework. On the other hand, i'm surprises that you didn't switch tactics and read up on the issues yourself and then approach it from a "what do you think about this portion of a book i read..." standpoint. Water under the bridge though.

So this is my focus. To understand if I was a controlling spouse or if I was reacting to a poor environment. I do feel I became more controlling after the affair as I wanted a lot of transparency. This was a struggle for my W and it continued to hurt our M. I also want to work on being controlling from a money standpoint. Should I have flexibility even though we agreed on how the money would be spent? I would be told often I was controlling when I wouldn't let her spend money on something. My heart wasn't trying to be controlling but if there wasn't money in the family budget and we agreed on no credit cards I'm not sure what I should do. If it was her own monthly budget money I did not have a say in what she spent it on. That was the deal.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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After counseling to try and save my 1st M, the counselor had what i thought was a good system. I used it in my M, and i think it worked, however during the end of the M, the W did not. A joint account is set up that is for all the bills you have together. Added up, they become your liability (monthly) for agreed stuff. You figure your incomes together and put in what the ratio of each of those incomes are. So for talking purposes, let say i make $100k and she makes $50k (assumes the W works). Then I'd put in 66% and she'd put in 33%. Everything in the separate accounts could be spent as each Spouse preferred. Some other people like to set limits on any individual item that can be bought (usually from a joint account, but could also be applied her). I thought it was brilliant and implemented it in my recent M as its doesn't control how money is spent and it promote good budget keeping. Usually for us if we got anything big that we both agreed on, I paid for it with my credit card which was paid through my separate account. I wanted also to use it as a tool to talk about the bills every month to decide on amounts each month as well, but that didn't work as planned unfortunately. If something came up though that either of us couldn't handle, then the other could step in with the separate account to fix the situation. I had to step in quite a bit to do things here and there to help out because my W would spend money differently than I. As I said,
in the ends, my W didn't like it, but it was because she wanted the money for a lawyer IMO.

From reading your post though, it seems that yours was a SAHM and that she had an allowance? If so, why didn't she just go out and get a job and make her own money to spend? Money is always a big reason why people get divorced, theres a reason for that. Me personally, i'd have a tough time working and getting paid only to have my W spend it all the way she wants. Agreed on, thats another thing.

Well....
-3.5 months is what it took to go from what I thought was a good marriage to divorce- Crazy.

Mine was/is a similar time period. Makes me understand why courts will have the waiting periods. In my case, it probably would have helped, I'm not so sure in your case it would have. In my case, it would have drug out a bit more had we gone through the courts, but my W wanted an "easy amicable" divorce. She didn't really get either really, but she did save some lawyer costs i suppose. The final papers are in my court for review right now, but i just don't have the heart to go over it in detail right now so i have been avoiding it so in effect i am extending it, but that won't last for long.

Well....
-The legal system stinks- I had zero leverage in this divorce. I'm just glad I don't have to pay spousal support. To me when one spouse has an affair or is currently in an affair they should forfeit some of their rights. Right now there are zero consequences for my ExW.

If you had proof of the adultery it probably does matter to the judge had you gone to court (thats what my Lawyer said anyhow), i think you mediated though if i recall. IMO the Judges have some leeway and if they see one is at fault they will lean toward the other side when making decisions. I saw this in my 1st M. Of course this depends on the judge. Personally, I think the no fault thing is BS. If you file, you should be at a disadvantage if there isn't good reason for the divorce IMO. When children are involved its even worse. From everything i can gather, the child support is based on keeping the children (and the one who has custody) at the same level as the marriage. Thats a load of BS in my book, especially since the courts are always bias to giving the woman custody.

Well....
Today she walks away with $55,000+.

My W got something similar from me (in addition to child support), but you just have to look at it as them just cashing out on what you did together. My D was my second try, and i wish i had found this site earlier to save my M when i had a shot at it. If i get married again, i will protect my assets better (i had a lot of separate stuff that she went after as well) to ensure they can't be gone after like my W tried to do. To her credit, its her lawyer looking after her best interest. Mine came out of mediation, and i treated it in a very business oriented fashion and came out better than what it would have wound up in courts. Her side kept trying to guide it back to what was totally "fair",
but i stood by the fact that if i didn't get a better deal than the trial would give me, i'd just go for custody no matter that the odds were against me. I had to give up custody to get the better deal,
but i at least got a better arrangement