WAW, is there hope?

[KGuy]

Hello Sandi, and thanks for your responses. Yours are especially helpful since you were on the other side essentially and might give me more insight of what she is thinking.

Welcome aboard. What are the ages of you and W?

I'm 50, she turn 44

Did she ever give you a significant reason for wanting to end the M?

She has stated all kinds of reasons. The actual filing took place after she wrestled with me over a phone (torn my shirt, kneed me in the groin, pretty bad stuff). That was only a catalyst though, she says i don't respect her and compares our marriage to other friend's marriages and how they do things (finances, treat their kids, outings, etc.) within their marriages. She stated the things listed above, but she mainly had the most issue with
-the house was a mess.
-I would get home late from work and although i basically took over all the things required for the kids, it may have been less than she wanted
-She said and i didn't love her kids thought i was too strict and treated them like slaves

Funny thing about the first bullet is that she took pictures of all the mess. At the time i was going to the counselor alone and i pointed out that all the pictures were of her things scattered everywhere. When we had a session together, she said she had no place to put it. Funny thing is that this new house (to us) we bought together has less living and storage space than my house i owned before the marriage. I see her point that we needed a fresh start and i don't put as high of a priority on cleanliness as most i'll admit.

How are you doing while living right next door to your MIL and W? May be handy for the kids, but I tend to think not so good for the adults.

From the adult perspective, not good! Early in the marriage, the MIL was living in our house! So moving next door wasn't as bad as that! I tend to want to peek out there to see if the W is there. I have to hold myself back and tell myself that it doesn't matter at this point. In fact it might be better if i didn't know. At other times, i avoid going out there because i don't want confrontation. This house has grown on me and i like it (well mostly), but i have thought of selling it and getting away from here. Still, the kids know this as their home, so having it keeps consistency for them at least. While we were struggling over custody issues, she would come out and try and take photos if i left the car running with the kids in there to run inside and get one last thing. Our driveways are right next to each other as well making it even more difficult. The BR she is sleeping in is directly facing the driveway.

From the kids perspective, it is very confusing. The 3 y/o will try and come outside to see me if she sees me in the driveway. I've told her that she is more than welcome to come over even if only for a hug, but that she should ask her Mom first. She has come over a couple times to do just that, but its heartbreaking when she wants to stay the night with me and it isn't my time with her.

Has your W always been a SAHM since living with you?

W also works. Thats another thing, she'll stay up late to clean up after her kids make lunches for the young ones while i am putting them to bed. When she told me she needed more help, i sent her to bed and made the lunches and got the older kids to clean the kitchen after themselves. Even then though, she would still stay up late. She wakes up really early to get to work, so she is just exhausted. I;m sure she is leaning on her kids and her Mom quite a bit to fill in for what i did. Still, looking back, i could have done even more i suppose, but i may be beating myself up.

Do you feel as if your life was mainly geared in pleasing your W, and if she did not get what she wanted, she could make the home life miserable? You told us about your shortcomings. Is there any other issues?

No, in fact i feel guilty now that i didn't try to please her more. She says she didn't like the way i treated her. I had an prioritized list in my head of getting things done around all of the houses. If she asked for specific things to be done around the house, i usually prioritized it, but usually didn't take the initiative to get things done that were luxury when we had other things that were required. For the first year of living together, i was trying to fix my house up and spent allot of time over there. She didn't feel that was for her. There are a few examples of that happening. I remember her coming out and telling me that one task i was doing (chopping up branches trimmed around the house for burning in the fireplace) was not helping her AT ALL. I did help her quite a bit with her house. She would usually bottle every up inside and then explode about something she really wanted done. Once I found out that, i would shift to do what she wanted to appease her. I've been reading the ... and i fit allot of the categories (forgetful, tend to hide my feelings, etc.), but i seem to have a lot of independent characteristics as well. In fact, at times she doesn't think i prioritize her as high as i should. Still reading that book, so i should probably wait too comment until i read the whole thing. So far, i see lots of inconsistencies in that book, but you can learn from anything as long as some though was put into it.

You told us about your shortcomings. Is there any other issues?

I'm sure i have many more shortcomings than listed. I'm stubborn, i tend to banter back and forth but try to see both sides of view so that everything is on the table before i set my mind whichever way its set. I don't think i am unyielding, and have change my course due to seeing how important something is to her. If i have a good reason for doing something though, i do stand my ground. She didn't like that and said i argued to much, she does like to argue she said. She said i was controlling her by dominating the conversation. From my end i expect her to speak up, but i realize i need to listen better then i do especially to the things not quite said affirmatively.

I tend to get depressed easily at times and i do try to hide it even from her. In 2014, my Mother died. I didn't hide that really, but I don't feel she supported me during this time as she should have. To her credit though, we were overwhelmed with the first kid together though. I can't help thinking i subconsciously resent her for that. I focused on my Dad after my Mom died and tried to include her in that, but she wasn't that interested in that as much as i would hope.

Another thing is that i like to tinker a bit. I'll take useful things out of the trash and pull parts and use them for things, Build things out of them, etc. She didn't like that at all, said i was a hoarder. I tend to not want to change things and get upset when she changes things without asking me my input. I would get upset to come into the house and say try to cook something and not be able to find things without asking her here she put them.

Either of you ever guilty of inappropriate behavior with a member of the opposite sex?

I can't help but to feel that she is thinking of someone else perhaps someone in one of her classes, but I don't think she is seeing someone. After reading another board, i am now doubting myself, but she does have integrity and wouldn't think that would be right while married. Perhaps that why she is trying to rush it? When we were "arguing" over something, she stated she doesn't even want too try with another guy after me. When her MIL and I were talking, she said she didn't think she was seeing anyone. The MC also said she didn't get the feeling that there was someone waiting in the wings. MC said that usually at this stage where the woman wants to separate there usually is OM involved. BTW, this marriage counselor was the second one we went to when we first had problems a couple of years ago. She had first stated she didn't want to counsel us as a couple because she had been seeing the W for at least a year before that. In other words, she got to know her quite well before she saw us together.

On my end, there is no one of the opposite sex involved save my HR person.

I think you said she was attending classes. What type of class?

The class is a Practitioner class. She says that she always gave in to me in the past and the class was helping her find herself and stirst started taking it. I would watch the kids on Saturdays while she went to that class.
She also thought she was enabling me and started going to a codependent class. I don't see how she is codependent, but i had hoped that she would talk to me about why she felt that way.

Sorry for so many questions, just trying to grab hold of some things.

Any particular type of help are you wanting to receive?

Sandi, keep asking, if nothing else it gets me thinking what else i could do. At this point i am focusing on things she would want to see. I realize i should only be focusing on myself, but i felt at first to focus on those things and then move on from there. On the other hand, there are other things i changed due to compromise in the relationship that i am trying to go back to my preference.

I came here for a few reasons:
-it seems most on here support my view to try for the marriage, even if it will be a different M should i be successful. Everyone i talk to IRL tells me i'm nuts for trying to keep the marriage together. They may be right of course, but I have to give it a try IMO. They think i'm even crazier for thinking past the "final" divorce. One of my work buddies tells me that i won't heal as quickly if i do what i plan. The MC is the only one who says any hope would be after the divorce.
-if someone on here sees something i am doing that wouldn't be helpful, then it would be good for me to get a kick in the butt
-general support, after all, you can't have too much support in times like these.



Now on to AnotherStander's post...